Relationship Marketing

Relationship Marketing With Kody B: Ron Forrester & Leslie Hocker

Is your business struggling for referrals? If so you might want to take a look at your system. When starting a business or sales job, we plug into a system or systems that have been laid in place before we engage in whatever that field, or endeavor is. Being system-dependent, you can have success in anything. Matter of fact, that’s how we all have success in everything we do, be it for business or personal growth.

Wouldn’t you agree that word of mouth advertising is the most valuable of all advertising?

Simply put, if you are not getting a consistent flow of referrals that means either:

  1. Your system isn’t working or;
  2. You don’t have a Relationship Marketing system in place

Good news is, this is where I can help!

If you’re looking to increase word of mouth referrals in your business or field of sales, then Relationship Marketing is a great place to start.

Watch the interview below to learn more about how Ron Forrester and Leslie Hocker became top income earners in their field by building relationships first and foremost…


Kody Bateman: Hello, everybody. This is Kody Bateman. Welcome to a special edition of our Relationship Marketing Podcast show. I’m very, very excited for the guests that we have on our show today coming from the network marketing Industry.

 

So I love the fact that on this show, we feature professionals from many different sales and marketing organizations. And the network marketing industry is very near and dear to my heart. As most of you know, I own a network marketing company and involved with the ANMP, Association of Network Marketing Professionals. I’ve had the chance to meet these couple and to hear them speak and hear them talk. Just incredible, incredible couple.

 

So I do want to introduce them and then I’m going to tell you a little bit about them. First of all, we have Ron Forrester and Leslie Hocker who are married and they’ve been in business together for a long time. So Ron and Leslie, welcome to our show today.

 

Ron Forrester: It’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

 

Leslie Hocker: Yeah. Thank you so much. We’re excited.

 

Kody Bateman: I love your Southern accent coming through us from Houston, Texas with that beautiful porch behind you. Some of us can see this show. Some of us watching or hearing will see this show on YouTube, and so, they are able to see you. Many will just get download a podcast and just hear the audio of it. But for those on audio, we set this beautiful couple in a very, very nice place with a beautiful flower portrait behind them. This must be where you do your meetings all the time. It’s like it’s really super cool professional look.

 

Leslie Hocker: We’re really fortunate. We live in the woods in the Woodlands and our house is flipped so our whole upstairs is open with floor to ceiling windows and we’re sitting actually in our conference room, which also substitutes as a dining room.

 

Kody Bateman: Wow!

 

Ron Forrester: We have a great conference table.

 

Leslie Yeah, we have great conference table. It works out great. So we have a lot of fun. It’s the one place we didn’t have a window behind us so you could actually see our faces.

 

Kody Bateman: Well, it does seem very bright and vibrant there so that’s really great. Let me tell our guests a little bit the two of you. Ron has been in network marketing. First of all, your top income earners right now in a company called Nerium. Ron has been in network marketing for 38 years. Leslie, you’ve been in network marketing for 35 years. You both meet through network marketing, have known each other for 29 years, worked together for 25 years, been married for 21 years. So congratulations on all of that.

 

In networking marketing, a lot of our accomplishments are featured in terms of income earned which is different in the network marketing industry than a lot of others. So in network marketing, there’s always reference to money earned, lifetime earnings of $23 million, which is substantial. It probably puts you in the top 2%, maybe top 1% of network marketing earners over the years.

 

Ron started as a spare time associate in 1980 while working as a pharmacist. He built his first organization producing an income that was multiples of his pharmacist’s annual income. He likes to stay at 36 years old. He was able to retire forever from Corporate America.

 

Leslie was a corporate executive in the oil and gas industry before she discovered network marketing. She is also a business coach, a certified NLP trainer by Robbins Research, a member of the NMP and also helped her company launched. Her current was launched in 2011.

 

Last year, Ron was named as one of the Top 100 Influencers in Network Marketing at the NMP. I actually witnessed that. Congratulations!

 

Their current company’s top income earners are earning several million dollars over the last several years. It’s kind of funny in your notes, it says, “How did they do that? How have they maintained top income?” And they would say through building relationships and helping others succeed.

 

So I’m sure that will be a key thing that we will talk a little bit about today. Zig Ziglar has the famous quote where he says, “You could get anything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want.” I know you know that quote well and you live that quote and you’ve done it for years.

 

Tell us a little bit about both of you. I’d like both of your perspectives. Tell us a little bit about your business philosophy. What is your overall business philosophy for success?

 

Leslie Hocker: Do you want to go first?

 

Ron Forrester: Well, actually …

 

Leslie Hocker: Because we both have. That’s why we ended up working together first because we both have the same philosophy. So …

 

Ron Forrester: I actually met Zig in 1969. He was – at that time, he was a big, big success salesman in the high-end pots and pans or whatever cookware. And Paul Meyer introduced me to him. And I never will forget that at some conversation we were having because I lived in Charlotte, some conversation we were having, he said that quote to me and what he said to me was, “Ron, you can’t help but get what you want if you help another people get what they want.” And that stuck with me.

 

Subsequent to that, I met Jim Rohn in 1974 and his philosophy is dovetailed in there and all of them were saying the same thing and it fit my personality. It fit mine internal motivators because as a pharmacist, I’m willing to help people.

 

And so, observing people in this world, not just in this industry but in this world, the more people that help people get ahead in life in many different ways were always somewhat at higher level than those it didn’t.

 

And so, I developed my philosophy from, from my parents also who were great. They were great help for anybody at Atlanta. And so that just fit me really well.

 

In 1980, I was very fortunate. The person that got me into this industry was Bill Britt and he told me, “If you work and help people, then you’ll be successful.”

 

And so, I have a little theme in training whenever I’m training people. I ask them, “If you’re system-dependent, you can have success in anything because that’s how we all have success in everything we do is we plug into a system that was laid in place before we ourselves engage in whatever that field is or that endeavor is.”

 

And I ask people, “How would you walk through a minefield if you had to?” And unfortunately, most of the time, they say, “Very carefully.” That’s a long answer.

 

If you put your footstep into footsteps, if you look and saw a path going across the minefield and you can see a big hole at the end of that path, you would put your foot in that footprint and walk across that minefield. And that’s everything that we do. Everything. Because every new endeavor for us is a minefield. Never done it before. We follow the system and it happens.

 

So I was very fortunate in the very beginning, they get plugged into how to be successful in this arena, in this marketing model because Bill taught me a lot. And then I had coaches that had the same philosophy as we were talking about Zig and Jim and Bill and a number of others that have the philosophy. And if you listen, you do that, you can’t help but have success.

 

I met her. I knew her before she knew me. She was at another company and she was sidelined to me and I was really having a lot of fun.

 

Leslie Hocker: And so for those of you that don’t know network marketing, that means we are in different organizations within the company.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Ron Forrester: I was having a lot of fun in that company and somebody said her name to me twice. And then I happened to be …

 

Leslie Hocker: Rising star.

 

Ron Forrester: Yeah, I was a rising star. I was very successful in that company.

 

Leslie Hocker: He was the top earner.

 

Ron Forrester: So when they said her name to me, we happen to have a training. A couple of months later, she trained on the stage and everything that she said – back there with my mouth open, said, “Wow! That’s exactly why everybody else to have success is training. And if these people in the audience listen to her, they will be great and have success.

 

And so, we set up a good friendship. And there’s the clue. Friendship.

 

Leslie Hocker: And relationship.

 

Ron Forrester: Developed. So …

 

Kody Bateman: Well, let’s listen to Leslie for a second. I want to – it’s kind of the same question but a little bit different. We do have a lot of listeners that are involved with network marketing and understand the model and we have a lot of listeners that are not involved with network marketing and don’t understand the model. In fact, they have preconceived ideas about the model that probably are not correct. As you know, that’s how it is in the real world out there.

 

So, you have a philosophy from Zig Ziglar from the quote, “Just help other people and you get what you want.” So put other people first. Help other people first. Leslie, if you could just expand on that, how – network marketing I believe is a model that’s literally built around that philosophy. Like it’s one of the few industries, in my opinion, it’s one of the few industries that really reward that philosophy. Can you talk to us about that? How that works in network marketing?

 

Leslie Hocker: Sure! I would be happy to. And you’re right. There are a lot of misconceptions about the model. And in our introduction, you shared that I come from the oil and gas industry. So just very quickly to connect with people is I went to school. I got a degree. My parents, they wanted me to have the American dream or the global dream. Went to school. Got a degree so I could get a good job. I graduated. I worked really hard, worked my way to the executive level.

 

And that’s where I figured out, “Wait a minute. This model is win-lose.” In order for me to win, someone else has to lose. And that came at the same time as I realized, “I’m going to work in the dark. Come home in the dark. Work the weekends. I love this. It’s fun. It’s exciting as a young woman.” And I got to the executive level pretty fast because I came out of school before the oil embargo in the late ‘70s. So now, you know my age. And I am a product’s work [Laughs].

 

Kody Bateman: Right. Exactly.

 

Leslie Hocker: And so, what ended up happening was it was – and initially, it was all about me and my time freedom. And I was very fortunate of understanding this model because in oil and gas industry, I negotiated deals to get wells drilled and then I got an override on every deal. And actually still have some very small override checks coming in. So I understood that concept of building a book of business or residual income or creating the work and then benefitting.

 

And so what happened after I started having success and relationship marketing, I realized, “Wait a minute. I can help other people have this success.” And that’s when we really understand that this model is a teamwork business of working together, of helping people. It’s a referral business. We all do it.

 

And it’s funny because I tell people that Facebook proof word of mouth marketing works because this is really – we call it an industry, Kody. But I like to refer to it as just a method of moving products or services into the marketplace because it’s different than traditional business. So in corporate, traditional business was win-lose. This model is win-win. And it’s funny when I work with traditional business owners, they are always asking me, “Why are you helping me? Why would you want to help me?”

 

And I laugh and say, “It does you no good just to sign up with us. We only win when you win.” That’s the way the company is built. And Ron mentioned Paul J. Meyer who was the billionaire, considered the Grandfather of Personal Development, and that’s – I’m really blessed because in corporate, because I was a young woman and I’m like the fifth or sixth female that get the degree that I have, I had to start working on myself. So you had a lot of things – and I was an athlete. I know where you got all this info on us but it was fun listening to it. I was an athlete and so I set goals, I did all those things. I worked on myself.

 

And when I graduated, I stopped doing that. But when I got involved in network marketing, I realized that I needed to grow myself to grow my business. And so, personal development, that’s how that whole journey. I met Anthony Robbins because of he joined my very first company.

 

Kody Bateman: Wow! So did you – again, just so our audience understands that the network marketing concept is about moving products or services, yourself, and then recruiting others to move the same products and services and then they recruit others to move the products and services. And we are simply there to help. So as an upline is like – if I sponsored you – well, let’s say, you sponsored me into a business, you would be my upline. You would be my sponsoring upline. And now, I’m in the organization and then I sponsor somebody. I would be their upline.

 

So your job is to mentor and coach me. My job is to mentor and coach who I recruited and so on and so on. And that is the elementary version of how the network marketing concept works. And that’s, Leslie, what you were referring to as far win-win. I mean that’s truly a setup of win-win because you don’t succeed unless someone else succeeds. In fact, it’s actually better to get somebody in your downline that’s better than you.

 

Leslie Hocker: Absolutely.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah. You get people better than you and you can go to North Carolina and mess around with more. Truly more residual income, right?

 

Leslie Hocker: Yes. You are always looking for people that are better than yourself. And that’s also the relationship pieces that I like. One of the things that I did learn upfront, Kody, is you’re either green and growing or your white and rocking and just working and playing out way through growing ourselves, helping other people.

 

Paul Meyer really instilled in us the developing people piece. It’s working with people, helping them. That for me, you already have that from Zig.

 

Ron Forrester: Yup, and from Paul too.

 

Leslie Hocker: And for me, Paul J. Meyer just amazing in his – it really comes down to, Kody, your company. People are very blessed to have you because you have – and the same with the company owner for Nerium, Jeff Olson, which is all about helping people be the best they can be. And really when you work on that, so your – I know your organization is very blessed because that’s your philosophy as well.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah, I appreciate that. I’m a big fan of Jeff Olson. I’ve followed him through the years. And he does amazing work. In fact, I’ve listen to many of his tapes over the years and whatnot and his two veterans, credible veterans of our industry. So, great person to be in business with for sure.

 

So, we’re on. I want to kind of go back here. We throw out a bunch of names and titles about this industry. We talked about it as MLM or multilevel marketing. We talk about it as a network marketing. You even referred a little bit early that the better reference of it, both of you did, is it’s actually relationship marketing. So it’s interesting that you actually referred to your network marketing model itself as relationship marketing.

 

Leslie Hocker: Yes, we do.

 

Kody Bateman: So tell us about that. Yeah, what – so when did you start referring to it as that? Why?

 

Ron Forrester: Well, in the evolution of the industry …

 

Leslie Hocker: Of the model.

 

Ron Forrester: … of the model, initially it was multi-level marketing, MLM, then network marketing and then about 8 years ago or so, relationship marketing came on the scene. It’s what was referred to as. And I mentioned to you earlier that that’s a better descriptor because just like you point out a few minutes ago, the whole model works on you developing people. And people trust you more whenever you are in relationships with them.

 

Leslie Hocker: When you show them you care.

 

Ron Forrester: Exactly.

 

Leslie Hocker: Yeah.

 

Ron Forrester: Exactly. Our business, is at the level it is because of the fact that one, just like we mentioned earlier, help people get what they want, you get what you want. Two, the model of the win-win. We work with people for them to realize their dream, then there comes the relationship. We work with them and can work with them. And over time, that relationship was solidified and developed into a trusting situation and people know that they could count on you. That’s probably one of the biggest things about it, Kody.

 

People begin to understand they can count on you, because it has been my observation that in corporate which I was in corporate for quite some time as a pharmacist, you really couldn’t count on somebody because they were looking to replace you. They were looking to get your job. They were looking to be promoted over you.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Ron Forrester: In networking relationship marketing, we are working to help those people become the best they can be. And in doing that, then we get paid for – yup, we’re paid for training, paid for our efforts of helping them. And it goes back to what Zig said, “Helping out people get what they want, you can get what you want.”

 

So relationship marketing, the word “relationship” I think describes what this model is better than anything because Leslie mentioned something a few minutes. She said we do it all the time. We refer people to some product or service. People that trust us, a book, a new movie, a restaurant, and they’ll go experience whatever it is we suggested.

 

Leslie Hocker: And when you say we get paid to train, we get paid because of referrals because we’re helping people.

 

Ron Forrester: Because we are helping people.

 

Kody Bateman: Well, yeah. I mean yeah, it’s powerful. This conversation is interesting because you are referring to relationship marketing as a business model.

 

Leslie Hocker: Absolutely.

 

Kody Bateman: That is now with marketing. We – I own a company called SendOutCards which is a network marketing company or as you would say, a relationship marketing company but we refer to relationship marketing as a system for traditional business. So we actually go out to the real estate agent, the insurance person, the mortgage person, anybody in any other type of field where they are representing a product or a service and we talk about relationship marketing as a philosophy and a system on how to treat your friends, how to treat your database, how to treat your prospects, how to treat your new customer, how to treat your existing customer. Building relationships at a non-customer level, a prospect level, and then a customer level …

 

Leslie Hocker: All of those.

 

Kody Bateman: Right, and how that generates referral business to come back through the pipeline for you. Some of our biggest users are actually real estate agents. I mean we’re huge in the real estate industry. Real estate people use us so many of them have joined our network marketing model for another stream income but lots of realtors use our products to follow up with their clients with greeting cards and gifts to create relationship marketing.

 

Leslie Hocker: My sister-in-law is actually a – she has been – she is a photographer, a professional. She does a great job. And she actually uses SendOutCards in conjunction with her photography business.

 

Ron Forrester: And what you described is exactly true of relationship marketing as any – across any segment of the marketplace. People are going to do business with who they know, like, and trust. And you have to build that relationship so that they do business with you.

 

Sales over the years, if you call on prospects, sales over the years I have noticed many times, I’ve been in sales myself, making that first call probably not going to get a sale. But going back, going back, going back, and doing other things that doesn’t have anything to do with selling product, just exactly like what your company does.

 

Kody Bateman: Well, when say simple things like, “Hey, say thank you to somebody and just say thank you. Say happy birthday to somebody in a greeting card or whatever and just say happy birthday. Don’t ask for business. Don’t ask for referral.”

 

I used to say all the time in our early seminars that I would conduct, I would say, “Don’t ask for a referral, deserve it.” And it was funny because we had a lot of real estate agents. Yeah, see what I mean? We had a lot of real estate agents that came through those courses and they had just been through these real estate sales courses where it talked about asking for referrals like all these examples about why they should be asking, asking, asking for referrals. And they come to my event and the first thing I say is, “Don’t ask for a referral, deserve it.” And the hands go, “Whoa! Wait a minute. No, I would not agree.” And so, it turned into a big discussion.

 

But let’s talk about that. Don’t ask for a referral, deserve one. I’ve watched you two and I’ve heard a lot about you two through the industry. You’re those kind of people. You may ultimately ask others if they know people who want to get into your business but there are a lot of people that just call you because they know that you want to help people. In other words, you don’t really have to ask for referrals, you deserve them therefore they’re just coming to you.

 

So, what kind of things that you’ve done in your career to make it so referrals just show up instead of you having to go out pitch them?

 

Leslie Hocker: Wow!

 

Ron Forrester: I’ll tell you one right now that we did yesterday.

 

Leslie Hocker: OK.

 

Ron Forrester: Leslie and I love to celebrate birthdays, OK? And so yesterday, we call a person. It’s her birthday. And as soon as they answered the phone, we sing happy to them. Nothing expected or anything like that, just celebrating their birthday.

 

Leslie Hocker: And we promise not to give up our day jobs.

 

[Laughs]

 

Leslie Hocker: To sing people happy birthday. Well, people love that.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah.

 

Ron Forrester: We go out of our way to treat people, not out of our way. We don’t even go out of our way. It’s just a natural. And a part of us where we treat people good.

 

Leslie Hocker: I will say one – it’s interesting you say that. There is a sister company to Nerium. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. But all of your listeners can go. It’s free. And it’s all the latest neuroscience research on success which shows happiness comes first, gratitude. It’s a website called LiveHappy.com. And Jeff started it, his own money just because he wanted to give back and bring all of that together.

 

And so, we don’t even really have to think about deserving anything more because we have such a culture that we built of giving back. We really have a culture of giving back, making a difference. Those are really some things that when you get up in the morning, what am I grateful for? And when you go through your day, when you start out your day like that and you go through your day like that, then you tend to look for ways that you can pay it forward. You can do something to pay it forward, to do something fun or pay for the person’s coffee behind you in the Starbucks’ line or toll booth or just doing things like that.

 

And really, in this model, when you have a culture of that, of connecting and building people, it comes back to you. And I don’t know how to explain that. We could go off into a whole other conversation about – that that will come back. But that really is our philosophy of just having fun. I like to see if I can make people smile.

 

Kody Bateman: It’s simple law of attraction. What you’ve spend out is what comes back to you, right?

 

Leslie Hocker: Yes.

 

Ron Forrester: When she walks in the room, people just light up.

 

Leslie Hocker: I do my best.

 

[Laughs]

 

Ron Forrester: One of the things that we do, Kody, is all those accolades you gave us on the frontend, it is wonderful to hear from up here. OK? It’s wonderful to hear that. Honestly though, whenever our downline, people that are in our organization …

 

Leslie Hocker: Our team.

 

Ron Forrester: … our team, give us the same kind of accolades, we are real quick to say, “We are not big deal. We are not.” We’ve been in this industry a long time. We’ve been practicing a long time. We should be successful. The real deal is you, the person giving us the compliment because we know that, particularly if this is your first time, that they agonize over it, they thought over it, they wondered whether or not they could do it, and would they get the help, and all that kind of stuff. So they make a big decision. That’s the big deal.

 

And so, we are quick to say, “We are just here representing you.” And we build relationships with people.

 

Leslie Hocker: I mean that really is why relationship marketing as you – I didn’t realize that you all described it as a system but it really is your business. You’re connecting with people. You are helping people. And that’s what this model is. You’ll go a lot farther in life and consequently in this business model of relationship marketing by connecting with people and helping them, and helping them where they want help because not everybody is in it for just – most people are in it just for money. It’s for being able to connect and have a better life.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah. One of the things I’ve noticed in this industry, in the network marketing or as you call it, relationship marketing industry, and it’s really cool. What’s really cool is recognition is a big deal in this profession. We do a lot of recognizing people’s accomplishments. We have them come up on this stage. We stand and we cheer for people. It’s a big deal. And you work hard, you gain accomplishments and you get rewarded for it by the recognition.

 

And let’s face it, everybody that’s breathing today wants to be recognized especially when they are working hard at something and accomplishing, the recognition is important to everybody. So the thing that I think though as the coolest about this industry is and I talk about it all the time with our group, it’s great to win the award yourself. It’s great to get the rank advancement yourself. It’s great to get the – be a part of some special elite VIP group yourself and then you get to go up on the stage and all the fuss is made about you and whatnot.

 

But what’s even greater – let me ask, what’s even better than you getting on the stage? What’s better?

 

Ron Forrester: Your people getting on the stage.

 

Kody Bateman: I knew that you would answer that way because of who you are. I knew exactly. So – and it really is. Like getting the accolades yourself is cool but seeing someone you work with get the accolades, I mean it’s literally ten times …

 

Leslie Hocker: Way better.

 

Ron Forrester: It’s way better.

 

Kody Bateman: Now, what other industry is that existent?

 

Leslie Hocker: It doesn’t.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Leslie Hocker: And that’s why that corporate background – as I said, the easiest way I can describe it is win-lose and this model was win-win because you help people and it helps you. I mean it’s …

 

Ron Forrester: As a matter of fact, if you don’t help people, you will not win.

 

Leslie Hocker: Yeah, and that’s really, Kody, I would say if you don’t build the relationships, if you try to do it all yourself in this model, you would not have the same success. So really, we do teach people to build relationships, connect with people. Help them even when it looks like it may not be benefitting you. And I think that’s probably one thing that we’ve done is we just work with the team to develop leaders and help them learn how to connect with people and then empower those people. And then they build relationships.

 

And so, it’s – then you could go on to other people. So it’s not all about us. It’s about helping other people.

 

Kody Bateman: Absolutely. So, I want to talk to you about because again, I think we all, you and my staff and all of you guys, your staff, the people that are behind you, all of us have a huge desire to elevate this profession of network marketing to make it better, to make it bigger, to get more into mainstream – our mainstream society, to be respected. And there are some things that are really necessary for us to do within the profession in order to be considered a profession. We say all the time, we’re not an industry. We are a profession. Well, you have to earn the right to be a profession.

 

And part of that earning the right to be a profession is you need to be professional. And there are some challenges in the network marketing industry and I do want to talk about it. This is one of those controversial things but it’s so important to have the courage to discuss it openly so that people can understand.

 

So in network marketing, what’s an interesting concept, you join a company, so first of all, I am company owner so this may sound bias. I don’t know. But it’s just reality. If you join – you cannot do network marketing without joining an entity, a company. Am I right so far?

 

Ron Forrester: So far.

 

Leslie Hocker: I was going to say, Kody, I think the way I described it for people since I’m in the field is, it’s a partnership. The company supplies things and you’re supplying your skills to build relationships and connect with people.

 

Kody Bateman: Right. OK. So it’s all a necessary part of the chain.

 

Leslie Hocker: Yes.

 

Kody Bateman: And the top of the chain is the company that supplies the product and the services and the culture and some of the training and then it partners with independent representatives like yourself who then partner with other independent representatives who then partner with others, and it creates this chain of people. But you’re not the only chain. Like you mentioned earlier on the call, network marketing is about multiple organizations that come from corporate. So corporate starts and you might join and you build your organization. That’s a leg. That’s a leg out of the company.

 

Some other superstar may start another organization and build another leg out of the business. And there are multiple legs coming at the business and that’s kind of how the system works.

 

Here is the challenge. The challenge is every time these people forget that you’re part of the bigger organization. Sometimes people get into network marketing thinking that, “Well, I joined and I brought all these people and while I was there, I met all these other people and they all love me on Facebook. They love me when I teach and when I train. So therefore, they are my friends now.

 

And now, I decided to bounce and go join another company. And somehow I have the right to all of those people. And so, they start to try to recruit people in to something else to take them away from the business that they started with and they disparage the company they came from for the mere point to try to get them to come from somewhere else. I’m sorry. But until we figure out how to fix this, how to clean this up, we cannot be considered a profession. And I’m sorry, I get a little passionate about this subject and I know you’re kind of passionate about it too.

 

So talk to us about that. What can we do to clean this up? How do we get through people’s minds that it’s not your organization. It’s not. You’re part of it. Part of the organization but you’re part of a bigger picture. It’s not all about you, my friend. It’s a bigger picture of people. And when you bounce and go somewhere else to try to bring everybody with you, you hurt other people. Period.

 

So anyways, I’m done. You can comment now.

 

Leslie Hocker: We both agree with everything you said. And it is a challenge. And it really comes down to people’s ethical integrity. So this model as DSA, Direct Selling Association, there are ethics, there is a professional guidelines but just logically really in mind perception, just logically if people really think about it.

 

I never would have met these people if it wasn’t for the company. So these people don’t belong to me. And truthfully, because we’ve left companies but we left the people behind because …

 

Ron Forrester: Whenever you recruit somebody into a company, Kody, everybody does the same thing. They tell them that what we’re doing is we are turning their dreams back on. The people that we’re are talking to and bringing into a company, the prospects that we are talking with, we are making them dream again and we are telling them that this vehicle, this company, these products is the vehicle that can help you realize your dreams.

 

And then down the road as you said, you’re going to bounce and all of a sudden we say, “Oh no! We are wrong about that. This product wasn’t what kept the dreams. This one is.” Well, what happens just then is you destroy their dreams again.

 

When we recruit people into this business, this industry, are just professions, whatever the script [0:38:35] [Indiscernible]. You got to realize you got a responsibility.

 

Kody Bateman: Yes.

 

Ron Forrester: And the minute they sign up, you have a responsibility, and that responsibility is to help them realize what it is that they turned back on and be guided by what their dream is, not what yours is. Now, Leslie mentioned something a few minutes ago when you mentioned about people leaving companies. Here are ways to do it. I’ve got two companies. But I left. I told my upline that I’m leaving.

 

Leslie Hocker: For your own reasons.

 

Ron Forrester: And I’m leaving, there’s nothing you can stop me – do to stop me from leaving. These people are yours now. They are your responsibility to train and help them realize their dreams. And I left because I had confidence enough in myself that I knew how to build another organization. And that’s – I really don’t know how to tell anybody that grow some integrity. It’s hard to do because they don’t have it internally. How are they going to do it?

 

You and I and you mentioned several people’s names a few minutes ago, they are associated with NMP whom I have a high degree of respect for everybody, Garrett and Tom and everybody else there, we are trying to get people to realize it. If we can get the word out to enough of our people to go to NMP and they see this happening, own the stage, and I know what’s happening in the back, maybe we can make a difference. If we preach it like I did a little 5-minute video, if we preach it …

 

Leslie Hocker: And practice it.

 

Ron Forrester: … and practice it because we have to set the example.

 

Leslie Hocker: I think that part of our challenges is people thinking, “Well, yes, it’s your own business but – and you got a center of influence in people that you brought, and yeah, those people, those are your connections. But it really stops there because there’s a responsibility for all of us to work together to raise the profession, to raise the awareness in the network marketing profession that it is a business of people helping people and can’t just go crash on their dreams because here’s what I’m seeing.

 

Here is the reality for people and those people listening that have been involved in the model of relationship marketing and networking marketing, you know that most often when you try to go into a company, we call raid someone else’s organization, those people end up in six months. Their dreams are dead. They end up not going anywhere. They are confused. They have no clue. You’re much better off starting with new people.

 

When we started our current company, we hadn’t – when we started Nerium, we hadn’t been building for six years. And so, it was a new company at the time and our friends laughed at us and all our peers were company owners or top distributors and they are like, “You’re crazy. New company, what are you doing?” And that really, new companies are a little bit crazy to do it. So for those people that think new and being in a very beginning, that’s not the deal.

 

So we had to start from scratch. And that’s when Ron said, the success we’ve had here is because we’ve been practicing a long time working to be a professional, working to build relationships, working to help people. And because we had friends in other companies, we could call them and go, “OK, we haven’t done this in a while. Give us some tips. What you has changed?” Because we are professionals and we do help each other. We do work together. I mean you’re top people we know and respect.”

 

So it’s – that’s what a profession is. Wendy’s builds next to McDonald’s and they are happy. Saltgrass here in Texas, Saltgrass Steak House builds next to Landry’s. I mean they want to help each other.

 

Kody Bateman: Right. It is an amazing profession that we are in and we all have a passion to protect it, to make it better, and these are just some of the things that I think it’s important. And again, at the end of the day, the underlying message is it’s all about relationships. You don’t ever want to do anything to jeopardize this relationship.

 

I as a company owner in the network marketing profession, I have a responsibility to protect the organization. You mentioned some of our top income earners. You didn’t mention by name. But I would like to, Jordan Adler. You know who Jordan Adler well I’m sure. He is our top rep in SendOutCards. I have as a company owner a responsibility to protect this organization. So when people come and they bounce and they do things to pull people from his or anybody’s organization, that could possibly have effect on his residual income, the company has a responsibility to protect the integrity of that downline.

 

So we simply – most companies, I’m sure our policies and procedures are probably very similar to yours, a lot of it comes from the same place, and all we do is enforce the policy and procedure. And it’s just amazing in today’s day and age with social media and everything else, when the company does that and then the last pack that happens because we are simply enforcing policies that protect our people’s residual income. How can you talk about – they joined us and earned an opportunity to have residual income where you could build an organization and money will come in whether you go to work or not. You can go to the beach like Jordan says and have beach money.

 

Leslie Hocker: Beach money.

 

Kody Bateman: And you can have all these coming in year after year. How can you preach that and then turn around and do something that will take away from that opportunity for somebody else? Does that make sense?

 

[0:44:57] [Crosstalk]

 

Ron Forrester: Or no confidence in yourself.

 

Leslie Hocker: So maybe we should say some of that on Facebook as fake news.

 

[Laughs]

 

Kody Bateman: Right. Right.

 

Leslie Hocker: I’m talking about network marketing profession. So, some of that inflated for people’s own agenda. So really, what it comes down to, connecting with people and helping them. And I found that when you do that, they tend to offstage when you do that not just from the frontend. When you connect with people and you build those relationships then they know they can trust you. And it’s the same, you created an environment with your company just as we have with ours of people helping people.

 

Kody Bateman: Absolutely. Well, I tell you, we could go on all day long. There are so many things I’d like to ask both of you but typically the way I like to close these podcasts is I kind of like to give you the floor. And I’ve asked questions, you’ve answered. We formed a discussion. But I always like to end the show by giving you the floor so each of you or both of you together to talk about anything you want to talk about, golden nuggets from two of the top professionals in the network marketing profession with a very successful company. Close us out with just some of your golden nuggets for personal development, for building a business, for creating relationships. The floor is now yours. Go ahead.

 

Leslie Hocker: OK. Who is going first? [Laughs] OK. So what I would say, the biggest – the thing that I like to work with people on is building your vision. And globally, you look at the Asians and they tend to build a 100-year, 300-year vision. And in the Western world, we tend just to maybe look at this week, next month, maybe next year. And I will just encourage you to really think about what it is that you want out of life? And that you can have it all. You can – as long as you connect with people, build relationships, build your dream and help other people build their dreams, I would just say dream bigger. We talked about that all. Dream bigger, sooner, and just have fun and help people.

 

I think the biggest thing that has been an advantage for me is I try not to take myself too seriously and I’m a constant student. So I’m always learning, always working to grow myself and when I got to one level then I realized, “OK, I got to grow myself a little bit more to get to the next level and then I want to grow myself so I can help other people get to that level.”

 

So it’s really a continuous – the thing for me that has created the success is having a vision and then working on myself daily and investing in growing myself so that I can help other people. So that would be what I think.

 

Kody Bateman: Love it.

 

Ron Forrester: I’m going to go to the nuts and bolts of the business since Leslie went to the theory.

 

Leslie Hocker: Well, it’s not theory. I do personal development daily. You could tell we’re married, right?

 

[Laughs]

 

Ron Forrester: The big picture. The personal development is absolutely essential. We have to do that because it’s going to allow you to overcome a lot of obstacles.

 

Leslie Hocker: Including your own.

 

Ron Forrester: Yeah, particularly. This is your biggest …

 

Leslie Hocker: Competition. Your biggest competition is the 6 inches between your ears. That’s why personal development is so important.

 

Ron Forrester: When it comes to the business itself, a couple of things. One, this is not a hobby. It really isn’t. It’s a huge business. $200 billion worth of goods and services move through this model worldwide last year. Somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 companies operate in this marketing model, this space. It’s a huge business.

 

The concept of – I’m going to – got a little side ache. Make it. Be serious about it because it will deliver any dream you got that you possibly conceive of if you consistently persistently do what you need to do. And what you need to do more than anything is simply bring new people to the table. That’s it. That’s all you do. That’s your whole job. New people to the table and have the product about it. Product, new people to the table to show the business.

 

And I constantly train that be open for business. When you step out of your door in the morning, be open for business. Have your tools with you that you can give to somebody because third party is where you’re going to grow. Be the messenger, not the message.

 

You don’t have to learn everything. In this marketing model, and me as a pharmacist, I had a 6-year degree and I had to learn everything before I could go take a test and then go to work. In this marketing model, you can start today and learn as you earn because you plug into a simple system. Do it consistently, persistently. And it doesn’t matter how much that time is for you.  Two hours a week, five hours a week, as long as you consistently, persistently do it week after week after week after week. You will have any degree of success that you are looking for, and  it’s what your degree of success that matters. Not mine. Yours.

 

Kody Bateman: Wow! Well, there you have it, my friends. Ron Forrester and Leslie Hocker, two of your top professionals in the network marketing, relationship marketing profession, thank you so much for the time that you spend with us. I know you’ve been travelling and just got home and you’re very gracious to pick the time today. So we want to thank you again. Look forward to seeing you at the NMP this year. And I’m assuming you will be there. So hopefully, we will be able to …

 

Leslie Hocker: We will definitely be there. And we want to thank you for all that you do for the network marketing profession, for the relationship marketing profession, and for giving us the honor of being able to share with some people and help people.

 

Ron Forrester: Absolutely. And I will say this final thing for you. I love getting your cards.

 

[Laughter]

 

Kody Bateman: Plus they have those brownies attached to them or some of those fancy cookies.

 

Leslie Hocker: Oh no! We must not have deserved brownies yet.

 

Kody Bateman: We better be sending brownies your way then. You have to eat a brownie and then take some of your products to take those what you had put on with the brownies.

 

Leslie Hocker: Yeah, for our health and wellness and the ageing products. Absolutely.

 

Kody Bateman: Well, thank you all very much. We appreciate you. And take care. All of you listening, make sure you share this show with other people. Tell them about it. Just incredible words of wisdom from two of the finest. And we will see you on another episode of Relationship Marketing Podcast. And take care, everybody. We will see you now.

 

Ron Forrester: Thank you.

 

Leslie Hocker: Thank you.

 

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