Success Stories

Relationship Marketing With Kody B: James Muir

Now you don’t have to be fearful with this win, win, close!

Most salespeople are scared to ask for a sale because they are afraid of ruining the relationship, so they just don’t ask or move forward. Basically, they do nothing.

Closing sales is about taking an assessment of where you are in presenting the deal. Frankly, the simplest way to do this is to ask 2 questions. With the first question, there are only 2 answers they can give you; yes or no.

Here are the questions…

  1. Does it make sense for us to ________? (Insert advancement)…This allows the sale to move forward when the answer is “YES.” If the answer is “NO” then simply ask…
  2. What do you think the next step is then? 90% of the time your prospect will feel comfortable enough to lead you into what should happen next in the sales process.

Consequently, the beauty of these questions, whether your answer was a “yes” or “no” you end with a sale or a suggestion of how to move the deal forward. Talk about a win, win! This formula advances you in closing sales at a pace your prospect/customer feels comfortable.

You’ll learn so much more valuable information from this interview with James Muir speaker and author of “The Perfect Close” and wanted to share this with you here…

Kody Bateman: Hello, everybody! Welcome to a new version of Relationship Marketing with Kody B. I’m really excited for our show today. It’s been really fun to start doing this and to be able to interview some of our great thought leaders that are out there in the world of sales and marketing and relationships and personal development, and all of these wonderful things that we should be feeding ourselves all the time. That’s why I love the podcast format so that – you know I love to download podcasts myself and listen to them as I drive. Hopefully, you’re doing the same thing and hopefully, we can provide some content that’s useful for you in your professional careers.

We have an incredible guest today to help us do that. And I’m going to read a little bit about this guy because you really need to kind of know a little bit about who you’re listening to today. I had the great opportunity to be on the same speaking format with our guest today. We’re at the Professional Business Connections Summit here a couple months ago in Salt Lake City and we both spoke – he spoke right before I did. So it was great and I actually just absolutely love this guy’s presentation. So without further ado, let me introduce you to James Muir.

He’s the speaker, author, and CEO. He’s the CEO of Best Practice International. He lives in the mountain of Salt Lake City, Utah. So he actually lives close to where my wife and I do, our family. He is the bestselling author of The Perfect Close. Those of you that see us on YouTube, I’m going to put this up here. It’s really close up there at The Perfect Close book which is a phenomenal book. And so he is the author of The Perfect Close, a 30-year veteran of sales, having served in every role from individual contributor to executive vice president. His mission is to make the complex simple.

So what I’m saying here is he is a done there – been there, done that guy. He’s not just a self-proclaimed trainer. He’s been in the world of sales. He’s broken records in the world of sales, done some incredible things and then wants to share what he’s learned with other people. So we’re excited for that. He has an extensive background in healthcare where he has sold to and spoken for the largest names in technology and healthcare including HCA, Tenet Catholic Healthcare, Banner, Gale, IBM, and others. So not only is James a lifelong student of sales, he’s also an accomplished guitarist, organic chemistry fan, a fit to the bat,[0:05:27] [Phonetic] we got a lot to talk about here today.

James Muir, welcome to Relationship Marketing with Kody B.

James Muir: Kody, it’s great to be together again.

Kody Bateman: Yes, it sure is. And like I said, when we spoke of that event, it was just a lot of fun. You – I love listening to speakers who are able to give you impact instantly. And you’re – you are able to give impact instantly. In fact, this book gives impact instantly because you have a very simple concept. And you know were – it’s called The Perfect Close, so there’s an emphasis in this book here about you know closing in sales which is a very important part of the sales process, of course. But you have a very simple, in fact, it’s kind of like a two-sentence thing that is your philosophy and then you built an entire book around it. Tell us what is The Perfect Close?

James Muir: Well, it’s the – actually, the origins of The Perfect Close is just because me, myself, I’m an accidental salesperson. So when I got into it, I actually didn’t know how to move my deals forward. I was a technical person that got to trust into serve and operations but also a sales position when we open up a new office in Salt Lake City. And I didn’t know what to do. So I – what I tended to do is I just over-present it. I would just keep going and going and going until the customer would stop me and say, “Hey, are we going to do something or what?” And I would reflect like why was I doing that? Why did the…

You know, so ultimately, I never did find a book. I got – there’s hundreds of books out there in closing and I have almost all them and almost, probably 99 percent are all manipulative. And the reason people don’t use them is because it feels bad when you try to use them. They don’t want to ruin the relationship. So in essence, they don’t do anything. It’s what statistically happens, it’s people don’t do anything. Instead of asking for an advance of some kind where they’re moving to sell for, they just don’t do anything because they don’t know what to say. It doesn’t feel slimy.

So the two questions are pretty cut-and-dried, right? We’ve boiled it down to something very simple. There’s actually five variations of The Perfect Close but the most – simplest version is where – the first question is does it make sense for us to do X? Right? Where the X is whatever you want the advance to be, right? So if let’s just say we’re consultants and we need to do an assessment before – yeah, we propose. You might say, “Hey, does it make sense for us to do an assessment to see where our best options start?” And in that case, the assessment would be the X, right?

And so when you think about it, the question just to make sense the X is only two things I can say, right? They can either say yes or they can say no. If they say yes, great, you don’t even need to use the second question, you just got your advance. The – and then if they say no, they’re just going to use the second question. The second question is some variation of “All right, well what do you think it’s a good next step then?” And what I can tell you having done hundreds of right ones is that in 90 percent of cases, the customer will just suggest a very natural next step for where they’re comfortable at in their process. And so you end up either with an advance or you end up with some suggestion from a client that also advances the sale in every case.

So, and the best part is you’re – we’re just timing it at the pace if the customer’s ready with the first. When we start asking them to do stuff that they’re not comfortable with, right, that they’re not ready for, that’s when it starts to feel like pressure to them and that’s when it will emotionally backfire on us. So anyway, that’s the – that’s it in a nutshell. There are certainly quite a bit more to it than that but that is the kindergarten version of The Perfect Close.

Kody Bateman: I actually like how you start the book. You start saying all right, for all of you that want to cut to the chase, you can go straight to page 178 and the perfect close is there. But there’s a whole – you know there’s a whole book around this teaching you know fundamentals of closing that all tied, it’s beautifully done. Your book is beautifully done because all of your build ups and all of your stories and all of – everything you teach, all your principles build up to or you know are pointed to the perfect close itself which are those two sentences.

Here’s what I love about it. I have the book out called The Power of Human Connection and this is our relationship marketing – there you go. Yeah, there you go. Our relationship marketing is transforming the way people succeed. Now in this book, I talked a lot about the relationship marketing sales process. And in the relationship marketing sales process, we talk about the fact that relationship is the most important thing, not the marketing. And most salespeople, you know traditional sales is like you said. Traditional sales is I’m going to prospect to get a person that might buy my product.

Once I have that person, I’m going to present to them to get them to buy from me. And if they don’t want to buy for me, like you said, I’m going to manipulate the close until I guilt them into or whatever to buy from me. But by golly, I’m going to get the close. That is the traditional sales process. To you and I it makes no sense to be in that world anymore. But the reality is a lot of sales people are still in that world. So we have a job to do to teach this concept of relationship rate – not relate, not only is relationship come first, relationship really is the only thing there is. So you may or may not get a sale but you will create a relationship.

And if you create a relationship, you’re either going to create a sale from it or you’re going to create a referral from it. But either way, relationship is more powerful than a closed sale. And that’s a hard sell on a lot of traditional salespeople. Now, the reason I bring all of that up is because that’s why I resonated so much with the perfect close. Because you know, you talk a lot in your book about establishing rapport and about assessing need versus giving presentations. Talk to us about that. What’s the difference and why is that so important especially today?

James Muir: Oh well, we just sum it up in saying that prescription without diagnosis is malpractice.

Kody Bateman: Right.

James Muir: That’s the shortest way you can say it, which is if you went into a doctor and before the doctor ever did any kind of exam on you and said “Well, I got some drugs here and I’m sure this is exactly the thing that you need.” You would very much question the validity of that doctor and whatever assessment that they’re making. So – but salespeople do that all the time and the reason that they do it is because they know that there’s only one thing in the little pouch of stuff to sell and so they’re walking in there. Now, that’s the thing I’m going to sell. And so they don’t slow down enough to just understand the customer to figure out what they’re trying to do.

And if you do that, once you – it’s about being actually trying to serve and help the customer. And so you need to go into the encounter with the customer tabula rasa, a blank slate. You might get something out of this, you might not get anything out of this, right? You might – oh you might be able to refer them to someone else that’s a better match for them. So we would just go in and see how we can serve them. And what I can tell you and just to add a little juice, there are so much of what you just said that was so good there is that when people first encounter another human being, there are two things that they measure. They measure warmth and they measure competency.

And what you just tapped into there is that the standard of selling world all tries to focus on the very macho competency. “I am the best at solving this problem” is what they wanted to – but here’s the truth, here’s the truth. And these initial interactions with people, people weigh warmth more and higher than competency. OK? And so if you’re very competent but they don’t like you, they don’t trust you, then they’re not going to do business with you. That’s a really short version of the whole – all the science around that. And so it’s really important that when we come into it that we just come in with a genuine intent to serve and when they detect that, they will become – they’ll be open and forthcoming – and that’ll help us serve them.

What happens is we come in all macho Gung-ho that we can solve the problem best but they sense they sense that you’re – you’re self-motivated that you’re going for what’s in it for you. What they tend to do is they withhold the information because they’re worried that that’s going to be used against them as the sales process continues. And that creates a very dysfunctional environment for buying. It’s – we need to actually understand what’s going on with them if we can help them. And so the thing – you know you can boil that down to a very simple thing and that just actually cares about what is happening with the customer.

Get off yourself, get off the solution long enough just to understand what’s there. And if there’s an opportunity there, it will present itself. But it it’s more important that we should demonstrate warmth and a genuine intent to serve than our competency and that’s a fact. There’s plenty of science around that. But if we go into a situation, even if you are the most competent to solve a problem, if you don’t demonstrate warmth, the customer will reject you. And so very often people get to scratch their head “Gosh I can’t believe it, we have the best solution but they didn’t pick us. Why did that happen?” And that’s because you failed to work competent. You failed the warmth part of that formula.

Kody Bateman: So it’s serving, not selling?

James Muir: That’s it.

Kody Bateman: Certainly not selling. I mean and they’re getting…

James Muir: I would say that when you’re selling correctly, selling is serving.

Kody Bateman: Selling is serving. That’s it…

James Muir: Yeah. Yeah.

Kody Bateman: That’s why it’s one of the most no – it’s actually should be one of the most noble professions, not a profession that’s looked down upon by a lot of people. And if sales is done right, if sales is done in the name of service, then it’s a very noble because again, that is what you’re doing. You’re there to assess, serve, help, be genuine with people. Now, here’s what I get a lot from that. You know we – when I start talking about the process and you do it too, you start to talk about the process of creating relationship as you go, assess people’s needs, ask lots of questions, go through all the process, then once that assessment you know feels that you get to a good point, I love the perfect close is does it – you know now that we’ve done this, does it make sense to…

And it’s usually not does it make sense to buy? It usually starts with does it make sense to do another thing that would get them closer to buying?

James Muir: A small step.

Kody Bateman: So talk about the small step versus going in for the kill.

James Muir: So it’s an interesting fact is if you ask the average salesperson, “Hey, what do you hope is going to happen as the outcome of your meeting today?” Like seriously, like 80 something percent of them will tell you to close.

Kody Bateman: Right.

James Muir: Even though statistically, and they’re rocking by the way who’s sort of the patron Saint of scientific selling back in the ‘80s did. The mo– the biggest study ever done on face to face sales encounters. And what he discovered is that in reality, only one out of 10 sales encounters actually ends in either a sale or no sale. What happens in the other nine is the sale either moves forward in a little way or something happens which is called a continuation, which is the sale actually doesn’t progress in any way but it doesn’t actually get lost either. And so just kind of languishes, it just continues and he called that a continuation. And so that’s the kind of the key is of using the perfect close is.

Well, what are the little steps that add up to the final big step? There’s a lot of little steps to get us to the final step, it’s when trying to – pacing too fast that starts to feel manipulative to the customer. So it makes sense to take a little bit of thought and say, “OK, what are the little things that my customer needs to do between now and when they finally make the decision?” and just help facilitate their way through that. And the way I like to turn that paradigm for salespeople or even professionals, entrepreneurs, you know they all kind of – some people they struggle with this. It’s just you’re a coach. You wouldn’t even be talking to this person if they weren’t trying to improve themselves in some way.

And which one of us would not like to have a coach who would help us with our – you know our professional or our physical goals to help us move forward with the pace we’re ready for? That’s what you are, right? You’re just trying to help them do that.

Kody Bateman: Right.

James Muir: So at the right time, we just want to ask a facilitative question, OK, well you know, I think most people at this stage do this thing. Does it make sense for us to do that thing? And then we’re going to listen to their answer. If they say yes, then it means this time is right. If they say no, then we’re going to ask them, “All right, what are you ready for right now?” Basically, that’s what it boils down to.

Kody Bateman: Excellent! You know – and I want to go back to – I was leading up to another question when we sidetrack on to this question, which I just love your answer. This process that you’re talking about, you know it’s a process. Assessment is a process. Serving is a process. Even the perfect close is a process. It’s not going into the immediate. It doesn’t make sense to do something else that can serve you and it’s a step by step approach. So here’s what I get a lot. What I get a lot from salespeople is “You know, this all sounds great, guys. But man, that takes so much time. You know, I got – I got to bills to pay. I got to make some sales. I got to get some commissions done. And what you’re saying sounds great. Man, it’s going to take me forever to get from the prospecting stage all the way to an actual close where I can cash a check somewhere.”

So how do you – how do you respond to that? How, what do you advise someone that has that objection?

James Muir: Oh my gosh. I’ll just say it this way fast – or slow is fast. And I know that that seems totally counterintuitive like – it’s like I said before if we try to move them faster than they’re ready for, that’s when they push back and then you’ve really turned on the brakes for how fast your deal is going to go. So it is very counterintuitive. In fact, what you said in the beginning as all the typical trends that you know approach that everybody takes. And because they’re coming in and out with this macho accelerate the sale, I’m going to manipulate this person. And they’re actually – the data is out. I mean it’s been superbly well studied and that approach actually is counterproductive.

You will sell less. You will sell less by using that approach. And so – and the reason for that is just because people if they don’t trust you, they wait, the warmth factor, more heavily in sales than any other kind of interaction. And the reason for that is because they know that the salesperson knows more about the solution than they do and they’re at a disadvantage. So they have to trust the person that they’re working with in order to be successful. They’re operating on faith. And so…

Kody Bateman: So…

James Muir: Go ahead. Sorry.

Kody Bateman: So isn’t it the key to like – I think the temptation for people to move fast is when they don’t have enough people to talk to. So if your pipeline is weak, if there’s not a lot of people in the pipeline, you nat – as good as you are you will naturally have the temptation to try to go for a close…

James Muir: Absolutely.

Kody Bateman: …because you just don’t have enough people to talk to. So – and this comes up literally, this comes up on almost every podcast I have. The pipeline always comes up and the importance of lots of people in the pipeline always comes up. Because the more people you have in there, the more you can serve them the right way. Can you talk a little bit about that?

James Muir: Oh my goodness. So there are four high leverage areas for sales prospecting. And those are market, message, immediate, and motivation. Those four are the highest leverage things that you can work on. And so the market piece is basically making sure that you’re only talking to the people that are the most qualified or the most – the highest prospect, highest probability for the thing that you sell. But just to kind of boil it down is if you don’t have a strong pipeline, then you get desperate. And that, by the way, is not unique to small business or medium business.

I’ve seen gigantic corporations that get into this scenario where their pipeline this week and so they tried to use very dysfunctional tactics to try to accelerate the sale. And the most common is just a discount. They think hey – and so think about what’s happening here. If you and I don’t trust each other, do you think it’s going to make a lick of difference if I offer to give you what I’m selling for less? That’s not the problem. You’re trying to solve the problem at the wrong place when you do a tactic like that and there’s a bunch of other ones like scarcity you know, all these different tactics that are manipulative when the real problem is that you A, you don’t have a big enough pipeline and B, probably the trust level isn’t there. They’re not comfortable with the solution yet enough to move forward.

So the key is just trying to attack at that level and that’s where the discipline comes in is a lot of sales people, they work a deal until it’s closed and then suddenly they have no pipeline. So they spend the next quarter trying to build their pipeline. So they get on this roller coaster that just goes up and down. One quarter they’re doing great, the next quarter they’re tanking and the next quarter they’re doing great. And so if you want to get off that roller coaster, the only way to do it is to a structured and disciplined way is the prospect on a consistent basis. That’s the only solution. And so…

Kody Bateman: We recently had Jeb Blount on as one of our guests who wrote the book Fanatical Prospecting and of course, he talks a lot about that you know just time blocking, time the prospect and always be prospecting. Even when you’re closing a lot of sales and you’re doing a lot of follow up and you’re getting a lot of other stuff, you always have to time block prospecting. Otherwise, there comes that – like you said, there comes the ebb and the flow because there ends up being not enough people in there. So talk…

James Muir: So let me throw…

Kody Bateman: Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

James Muir: I was going to throw some gasoline on that because let me just tell you, this is from my personal experience as a sales professional. And just to put it in perspective, you know when I was an individual contributor. The – they were offering accelerators and bonuses to people that would close six-turn PC or these are tend to be larger deals that I would sell. And I was doing 25 a year. OK?

Kody Bateman: Hmm.

James Muir: So I just want to compare that. A top performer was doing six and I was doing one every other week. So how do you get to that stage? And what this boils down to is the trust and the relationship that we started this conversation out with is that while I’m working with an existing client to try to help them, I would – you know at some point during the conversation, they will always at some point, they will try to ask you about the price and what the best deal. And that here’s what I would say that I might say, “You know what, as long as I’m in the block, I really don’t need to make the maximum amount on this opportunity, right? I just need to make sure that we’re making a profit.”

So what would help me the most is if you’ll help me get another account later like once we get this all installed and its working if you’d be willing to share your experience to somebody else, then I will get you the best deal I can possibly get you. And once they – and once you have said that, I would get this response and then we go like “Oh, thank you.”

Kody Bateman: Yeah.

James Muir: They didn’t have to worry that they were getting the best deal and at the same time they would say “Absolutely, I would love to share my experience.” So right from the get-go, before they were even sold, they were already prepared to help me get the next account. And so I call it critical math. Once you’ve done this for a little bit, you get the machine working, it’s actually very hard to spend time doing prospecting because you’ve got your own client bases feeding you so many opportunities that you’ll have a hard time finding prospecting. And so it’s the best is just to serve your clients as good as you can serve them and have them help you get other clients. That’s the secret formula right there.

Kody Bateman: So my book The Power of Human Connection, I talk a lot about creating a genuine relationship through the process and making it about creating a relationship. You’ve had lots of success in sales and I already know that a lot of reason for that success is you learned along the way how to create and I’m not just going to say relationship. You learned how to create a genuine relationship with human beings. You were creating a human connection with people through the process. And I think that – well, I know that’s one of the reasons that you were at 25 plus when these others were at six. So my question is what kind of things did you do or do you do and that you teach others to do through the sales process to always be creating a relationship? Just give us some of the main things you do.

James Muir: You know, I would just say this for almost every – sales is an interesting profession and that you’ve got this very small set of people that tend to spectacularly outperform everybody else. Like you have 100 sales guys and there will be like five or six that are selling as much as the entire other 90 percent combined. And like how does that happen? How do you get these runaway successes like this? And what I can tell you is every sales professional I’ve ever spoken to, Jeb for example, is a friend. I know you had Larry on your show. He’s a friend. They all have this moment in their lives where they realized that if they just help the customer accomplish their goal and get what they need, they’ll get what they need, right?

Kody Bateman: Right.

James Muir: And so I would just say you what – if you create a process where you can actually genuinely understand connect to the customer, communicate to them and have them understand that you actually care. And by the way, there are lots of ways to do that. I personally think the high – in touch –you know being face to face is the best way that you can do that. But there are limitations to that, right? We don’t – we can’t always be together with the person face to face but that’s the highest touch best way because they can actually connect with your intent.

Kody Bateman: Right.

James Muir: And there’s a whole bunch of silent communication that takes place that only is conveyed in this face to face connections. And if your intent is bad, sad to say you’re transmitting that to them and they pick up on that. On the other hand, once you finally get it that you’re actually trying to help them, then they get that too. And you could screw up lots of other places but as long as they understand that you are genuinely trying to help them, they will let you – they’ll keep coming back and giving you chances to swing at the plate.

So it’s easy to say but maybe harder to do because I remember there was a time in my life when I was trying to kill it, right, I was really trying to you know work hard and make sure that I was getting all the sales. But it was when I – it was when I pull back and just try to help the customers out, that’s when I really start to accelerate to the point where all these guys, all like my customers were my sales force. They were helping me instead of me trying to close them. I don’t know if that makes sense, Kody.

Kody Bateman: Oh yeah, no question about it. Again, it comes back to service. It’s that – it’s through the process you are – it’s – a lot of it is psychological I think. You, at some point, you have to make a conscious shift in your mind and it’s a hard shift for a lot of sales people to make. It’s – you got to make this shift in your mind that listen I’m here to create a relationship with another human being. That’s what I’m here for.

James Muir: And…

Kody Bateman: I happen to have a specialty in a certain product or service. So that might be “a way” that I can be of service to this human being. But I’m here to create a relationship with a human being and if it makes sense that my product or service or expertise helps them then great and instead of the ultimate goal being the close.

James Muir: Bingo! And that’s – and let me just amplify this because I work with a client that actually turned out to be another deal for us. OK? So I’m working with this client. Well, that client ended up referring to me a person at Banner Health Systems, which is one of largest health systems in the United States. And that deal that went nowhere because I was trying to help that person just genuinely get what they needed, right, then involved us, right, and ended up working with somebody else because that because that was really a better solution for what they had. That person referred me the Banner Health Systems and Banner Health Systems turned into a long-term client worth over $10 Million to my organization.

So that’s exactly the kind of karma that you’re talking about in your book is that if you just go into every situation thing, how can I help, right? You’ll be doing the right thing. You’ll be doing the right thing. And most of the time that will probably turn into a solution for you and I might happen right away but it might happen in the future. But even if it doesn’t, it’s this karma factor.

Kody Bateman: Yeah.

James Muir: It’s hard to measure, right? But then what happens is you’re around about they say, “You know what, this is the person that you want to talk to. And that creates opportunities. You do need to be a little bit patient, right? A lot of gestation, it takes a while for certain things to happen, already has its own time and what should happen. But at the same time, where salespeople struggle is if you’re not making any money right now and you need money, you start coming into the environment with commission breath.

Kody Bateman: Right.

James Muir: And you start coming into I think what’s in it for me? And you really just have to get off of that. And the sooner that you can get yourself off of that even if you’re starting out and you do [0:29:29] [Inaudible] is just to serve the customer. That’s the fastest path.

Kody Bateman: Commission breath, that’s pretty good. Yeah, I like that. You’ve got a lot of great little one-liners in your book too. It’s really good stuff. So yeah, I mean you know it’s just fascinating to be able to talk about all these different nuances and that you know, we live in a day and age today now and I talk a lot about this where things have dramatically changed. Your prospect has dramatically changed the buyers, people that buy anything. The buying process has dramatically changed. Just think about yourself as a buyer of anything. You know, you buy a car, you buy a house, you buy a motorcycle, whatever it is that you go out to purchase, you’re a different buyer today than you were even 10 years ago, even five years ago because of Google.

Because of the information age, we have a tendency to know about – know more about a person’s product or service, we know more about it. Then a lot of times and the people are trying to sell it to us you know. So by the time you sit down and sit with somebody that’s going to give you a presentation, the person you’re giving a presentation to now, chances are, they already know about your product, they already know about your service, they even know what your customers are saying about your products and services and now you’re sitting in front of them.

So because of that, a relationship has become more important in the process than ever before. Do you find that to be the case? And how do you – how do you counsel your clients to be able to be prepared for that?

James Muir: Oh also, yeah, there’s a [0:31:12] [Indiscernible] of dissecting what you just said there. So it’s absolutely true what you just said because in just a couple of seconds, people can go to the internet and get all the information they need. So the role of the salesperson is no longer that of an information dispenser, right? In the olden days, that was the main value that the salesperson brought is the information about the solution. Guess what, guys? They don’t need that anymore. They can go online and get all the information about your solution that they need. And like you said, Kody, in some cases, they’ll know more than the salesperson knows.

So the value that you can bring as a salesperson is in your understanding of what they’re trying to accomplish and you’re delivering some insight to them about how to accomplish that goal and the best way to do that. So you would be – we’re really more consultants today than information dispensers. And I would just add one little other things that kind of adds to what you just said there and that is the customers take this – the sample of time that they are with us and they extrapolate that into what the experience is going to be like to work with the company.

if I – you’ve got a great story in your book about a company that did this, right? And this and all things are being equal, all these solutions seemed exactly your – but the way that you followed up with us with the cards and with you know making sure that we had everything we needed. We felt like that was exactly what we’re going to get after the sale. And so what’s happening there is they are taking a sample of their experiences in the sales process and they’re extrapolating that into what your whole experience is going to be like after the sale. And what that means for us as sales professionals is we need to make sure that every sample is awesome.

We need to make sure that every sample is 100 percent serving the customer and 100 percent positive experience for them. And so we don’t just wing it, we put a little thought into what we want – what kind of experience we want the customer to have when we’re with them and even when we’re not with them, right?

Kody Bateman: Yeah, I think the story you’re referring to was a construction company that was actually the high bidder on a job. It was a dental practice or a physician practice that they were remodeling their offices and this construction company was the highest bid. But the difference was – is that they – every single time they’re talking on the phone, they send in a proposal, they would send a thank you card and a box of brownies or whatever. They would do that and they would make phone calls and text messages to see how they can help and serve with that genuine human connection feel to it all. It was – there’s nothing fake. They sent a card because they care about those people that they were serving.

James Muir: Hmm.

Kody Bateman: And the way the story ends up, just for our listeners, you know the story but just for our listeners, the way that story ended up is that they, the physicians called back this company and said we’re going to hire you and the company asked, “Well, how did we do in the bid process?” and they said, “Well, you’re actually the highest bid.” But here’s what’s interesting what they said. “We’re going to go with you because the way that you followed up with us shows us the way that you will do the job.

Now what – I hope that sinks in with everybody. “The way you followed up with us, the way you were so in tuned and so in-tuned to detail went the extra effort, went the extra mile is an indication of how you’re going to do the job. So that’s why we went with you.” And I think a lot of times we think that as a thank you card or a genuine follow-up process is just a nice thing to do. It’s a lot more than that. I mean it sends a message.

James Muir: It does and I like to say it this way. How you sell is a free sample of how you solve, right?

Kody Bateman: Nice.

James Muir: Right? So the customers are looking at the way you’re approaching the sales process and they’re projecting that. It’s just – if your story illustrates it exactly how I mean, it’s perfect. They’d see that and they say that’s exactly how I feel like I’m going to get taken care of after the sale. And here’s the fact. If you look at the kind of companies that actually do pay attention and take care of the customers during the sales process, they are exactly the same kind of companies that take care of their customers after the sales process. That is a fact. That is my experience. When I see companies that are doing it, they’re doing it good on both sides.

It doesn’t happen that all in their sales process they’re really great and then suddenly when they flip over into that the delivery part of the solution that it’s horrible. That doesn’t happen. And it’s a cultural thing I think within the organization. So if you’re not doing it, it should – maybe take a minute and introspect about how you are on your delivery side too.

Kody Bateman: Well, I’ll tell you, James. You got some really good stuff here. Talk to us a little bit about how people can get more access to your content. I know that you got several things out there obviously, the book, The Perfect Close. I highly recommend this, by the way, The Perfect Close. And where is this available? Where can we get this?

James Muir: So Amazon is the best place to get it. And if you’re a Kindle reader, you can get it for three bucks, so you can’t beat that. You can actually get a download of the first three chapters and literally all of the models, so you can get all that for free. So if you want to see if it’s for you, you can just go to P-U-R-EM-U-I-R dot com and just go to the resources right there and there’s like about 20 different resources including planning forms in the chapters of the book. In the models, there’s a report, Seven Deadly Sins of Sales closing and all that are sitting there. It’s all for free just to make sure that it’s for you.

And then of course, if you want, you can get the book on Amazon. I think we did some special for your audience as well, Kody if they want to just watch a video on how to do all this.

Kody Bateman: Yeah, tell us about that.

James Muir: So if they go to – and this is only available here. So you got to either listen to this recording what I’m about to say or you got to look up for it in the show notes, right? because it’s not going to be on the website. And if you go to P-U-R-E-M-U-I-R .com/Kody K-O-D-Y, then you’ll be able to download there the 20-minute keynote that I did when I was with Kody at the Professional Business Connections Summit. And it basically goes through the – actually, I think we go through four of the five different variations of The Perfect Close during that. And also, we talked a little bit about motivation, how to stay motivated in that session. So that’s something all exclusive to your listeners here.

Kody Bateman: I remember when we were both speaking at that if you remember there was the audio difficulty that night, remember that?

James Muir: That’s right. There was a little bit. There was a little bit.


Kody Bateman: I love how you handle that. We both had to handle it in different ways but it was kind of fun that day. So I always like to close with a couple of questions, it’s just – it really – I love this for our listeners and for me as well. The first one is I love to read. My biggest – the biggest way for me to nourish my soul is to read. I’ve been that way ever since I was about 14, 15 years old. So the first question I have is what is your favorite book of all time and why?

James Muir: Wow! All right, I have to give you two.

Kody Bateman: OK.

James Muir: So the easy answer is Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Absolutely my favorite book of all time. However, and so if you haven’t read it, then that’s the place to start. OK? But if you want a minor upgrade to that, then what you get is you get the much bigger Napoleon Hill book which is called The Law of Success. And so The Law of Success is going to take what’s in Think and Grow Rich and it’s going to expand on probably five times I would say. It’s a much, much longer book but both of them are just fundamentally life-changing spectacular books. And it’s one of the reasons and so I just love the whole second half of your book it’s just nailing all of that universal truth that is in Napoleon Hill’s and all of these other books.


And you just did a phenomenal job – I have a big surprise, I thought it was going to be all about marketing and here’s some completely life-change material in the second half of your book. So that’s why I would – is recommend Napoleon Hill of any kind. But those two books, Think and Grow Rich and The Law of Success were absolutely the best for me.


Kody Bateman: Well yeah, those – I’ve got both of those books in my library. They’re very well marked up and I refer back to them quite often. So yes, I would agree with that. Next question, if you can be remembered for one thing, what would it be?


James Muir: If one thing… that I use my communication skills and my talents to help people grow themselves and their resources for good. That the – I honest – I think my honest belief is that good people with resources in this world is a good thing. And so what I want to do is I just want to help people develop themselves and their resources so that they are – so they have – I want good guys to have all the resources, money, right, so that they can make good things happen. And so I want to teach people how to do that. That’s – if – and I’m not done by any means. In fact, that, I’m sure that I’ve really started my major impact in the world in that regard. But that is my…


Kody Bateman: You’re a young guy. You’re a young guy, James.


James Muir: Yeah.


Kody Bateman: You got a lot of life left in you, brother. So you got to keep going. So…


James Muir: Yup, that’s my goal. That’s my mission right there. So hopefully, I’ll – you know whoever reads on my tombstone, it’ll be that they – that I accomplished that goal. That’s what I’m asking for.


Kody Bateman: Oh, that’s great. So the – what does human connection, the words human connection, what does that mean to you?


James Muir: I think that just speaks to the intent and the emotion that we feel when we are connected with another person that’s authentic and that’s genuine. To me, when I hear human connection, what I mean is it’s not about a process, it’s not about a machine, it’s not about automation, it’s about one to one, you know human to human, personal connection that where there’s caring and understanding going on between two people so – and I love the title of your book. Although I’ll be honest, I thought that the other titles that you’re considering with me anyway, it would have been – they were resonated with me. So I would have been in the thumbs up for you other possible titles of your book.


Kody Bateman: Yeah, you’re referring to – I had – because originally, I’m going to call the book Make Karma Your Niche, which is a… [Laughter]


James Muir: I know your… [Laughter]


Kody Bateman: Obviously, there’s a lot of – you know there’s a lot of meaning in this book about – in fact, we talked in the book about karma. You know, “What you5 send out in life is what comes back to you and that’s what I love about The Perfect Close. I mean think about it, just a question alone, does it make sense to – that’s a respectful line. You know, The Perfect Close has respectful lines in it. does it make – you know, now that we’ve done this, does it make sense to – shows that respect. Your sending out that respect for somebody. What you send out is what comes back to you.


And I think that’s a reason, James that you’ve been such a success. It was incredible to be able to speak on the same stage on the same night with you. I look forward to doing that in the future.


James Muir: Mm-hmm.


Kody Bateman: In fact, we have a grand – Relationship Marketing Grand Summit coming up next August in Salt Lake City, Utah. We expect about 3,000 people in attendance. And I’d love to have you come to be a speaker at that, so we’ll get with you for more detail on that in the near future. So…


James Muir: OK. I love to support my hometown. So that’s an awesome offer.


Kody Bateman: I know it’s – yeah, you won’t have to travel very far. You just drive downtown and we’re going to do a show. So it will be a lot of fun. So there you have it, everybody. Relationship Marketing with Kody B. with my special guest, James Muir. He’s the bestselling author of the book The Perfect Close. I highly recommend that you get out there and get it. Also, go to K-O-D-Y and get some of those special offers and let’s go out there and keep ourselves educated, keep sharpening the saw, keep doing the good stuff, send out positivity to the world every day. Don’t pay attention to the negative clutter that going on in social media and in the news channels. Turn the news off, read a good book. Listen to a good podcast and let’s go change the world.

Thanks, everybody! Take care now.


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