Success Stories

Relationship Marketing With Kody B: Mark Hunter

Let’s talk sales, making money & where Relationship Marketing fits into your target market…

First, what is a Target Market?

Target Market is where a salesperson or business owner should focus their time and efforts. Why? Because prospecting the wrong audience is a waste of time, energy and produces;

  • a longer sales process and;
  • fewer profits, plus;
  • time wasted

Spending time to find the right consumers for your product and service is essential. This produces buyers needing your service or product. Simply put, the right prospect is likely to want what your selling. Consequently, spending the time to discover your target market is crucial.

Prospecting the right target market fills your funnel full of potential customers.

Once you have the right target market, it’s time to assess their wants and needs. Assessing their wants and needs puts you in a position of trust and confidence. Hence this is where relationship marketing comes in by building the trust and confidence that more importantly, produces a sale, which is the desired outcome.

Mark Hunter is known as the “Sales Hunter” and the author of ‘High-Profit Prospecting’ also, the co-founder of the ‘Outbound Conference.’ He shares why sales are not about “what we are selling” or “how we sell.” He tells us it’s about “WHY” we sell.

Don’t miss out on this valuable interview where Mark shares his successful methodology…

Kody Bateman: Hello everybody and welcome to a new episode of Relationship Marketing with Kody B. My goodness! We are excited for our guest that we have on the call today. Thank you everybody for tuning in and listening to our first several podcasts. We’re having lots of success with that. We’ve had some incredible people. Thought leaders have come on to this show and shared some incredible wisdom with us not only about relationship marketing but more particularly about sales in general, the sales process, what sales looks like today versus maybe 5 or 10 years ago, and some great, great thought leaders have been on the show already and boy, I tell you we’ve got another one today, one of the best. We’ve got one of the best here.


I want to go ahead and introduce him. There are so many things about this guy that I need to make sure I carry across. So those watching me on YouTube, I’m going to kind of read this off just so you see – listen and see who we’re going to be talking to today. Mark Hunter, if you haven’t seen this guy, you’re just – he has got these fancy books with yellow covers. Those on YouTube, I’m holding up the book right now. Mark Hunter is on with me and he has got the High-Profit Prospecting. It is his latest book and it has got the fancy yellow cover on it. You probably see them in bookstores as you go through the airports. You will notice it on the airport shelves and things like that.


And I’ll tell you what. Mark Hunter, he is known as the Sales Hunter. He helps individuals and companies identify better prospects and build more profitable customer relationships. He is an award-winning sales blogger and in-demand speaker. His clients include Samsung, Coca-Cola, American Express, and Sony. He is the author of High-Profit Selling, and that’s his first book is High-Profit Selling. And his second book is what we just showed you, High-Profit Prospecting.


And right now, he is #3 best sales book of all time. His book – those of you on YouTube looking at this book on the screen right now, #3 best sales book of all time. We’re going to talk about some gold nuggets out of there today.


Mark is the co-founder of the OutBound Conference. He is the co-founder of this along with Jeb Blount who was recently on the show, Anthony Iannarino, and Mike Weinberg, all of which will be featured speakers at their OutBound Conference coming up on April 23rd through 26th in Atlanta, Georgia. If you’re a listener on this by the way, you’ll get a special code for $100 off of that if you want to attend the OutBound Conference in Atlanta, April 23rd. Go to and you’ll be able to learn more about that. I know I’m going to be there. Looking forward to learning from some of these guys.


So I could go on all day about bios but I think we’ve heard enough of all the cool stuff about you, Mark. So without further ado, welcome to Relationship Marketing with Kody B. How are you doing?


Mark Hunter: Hey, good. Thank you. Let’s talk relationships. Let’s talk sales. Let’s make some money.


Kody Bateman: See? That’s what I like about Mark. He wants to jump right in and get going. We’re going to make sure we give you some very rich content. I want – I do want to jump right in. There was something that really caught my attention as I started to study you and some summaries that people have written about you. And one of the first things that caught my attention, I want to start here, it says the reason that you enjoy sales so much is that you never set out to have a career in sales. So tell us what that means because that’s interesting to me.


Mark Hunter: Well, I give you the 30-second version. I sit here today sharing with you and your audience my passion for sales only because of the Seattle Police Department. That’s it. That’s the 30-second version. The Seattle Police Department put me into sales.


  1. Let me give you a little bit of the back story. I got four speeding tickets. Now, nobody was hurt. Nobody was hurt. Just plain speeding tickets in the course of about two months my final semester of college, which led to a problem about three, four months later, I could not afford car insurance and I had to get a job that supply me with a car. That’s how I wound up in sales.


Kody Bateman: I’ll be darn. OK. Well, that’s interesting. So you did wind up in sales and you’ve had some incredible experiences here and I just kind of want to talk a little bit because you’ve served in marketing departments, you served in sales departments, you’ve been a consultant, you’ve been a sales guy. I mean how did the whole sales career start for you?


Mark Hunter: Well, the whole sales career began by getting fired from my first two sales jobs. Whoa! There you go! Now, how’s that? Yeah. In fact, it’s funny because the first – when I had to get a job that’s going with the sales, I didn’t want to be in sales. I do not. I got a degree in marketing. And I actually got fired from my first two sales jobs. And it wasn’t until I really came to realize it’s why we sell. It’s not what we sell. It’s not even how we sell. It’s why we sell. It’s to help people.


When we begin to shift things and realize – think about, what are relationships? It’s about helping people. When we really begin looking at helping people, that’s when the light bulb began to go off. That’s when I really began to really love marketing at a much higher level and sales at a very passionate level.


Kody Bateman: Wow! And so in other words, when the shift comes to it being about service rather than about selling, that’s when – and I’ve noticed that like you’re good friend, Jeb Blount, we had him recently on the show and he talked quite a bit about that, we spent a lot of time talking about when you get on with a prospect as an example and you start to go through what we call the sales process, the old school kind of seems to be the pitch. In fact, he has a term. I think he calls it something about the pitch. I can’t remember whatever it was. It was funny.


But anyways, it’s just the old school is more about pitching the business. New school is more about assessing needs. So there’s a big difference between pitching because if you’re pitching then you’re talking about – if I’m pitching to you, I’m talking about my need. I need you to buy from me. If I’m talking about assisting your needs, now we’re talking about you.


So I think that goes along the lines of what you just said. As soon as you figured out you’re in the service business not the sales business. Talk to us a little bit about the importance of that shift.


Mark Hunter: Well, the importance is that we’re shifting to questions. Now OK, we’ve all heard this thing, “Oh, in sales, you’ve got to ask more questions.” OK. But here’s the thing. It’s not about features and benefits. I can’t stand features and benefits. I want to talk about outcomes. What’s the outcome that you are looking for?

An example I like to use is two people getting on an airplane. They are both getting on an airplane to take a flight. But they may have totally different outcomes. One person might be going to see their new niece or nephew for the very first time that was just born a few months ago. The other person might be going to a million dollar business meeting. Completely different outcomes.


See? When we understand the outcomes then we really understand how we can really service the person that we’re talking to. That’s what sales is all about. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, “Oh man! I want to be sold to. I hope somebody sells me.” Nobody does. But they are willing to buy this whole thing. We got to look at nobody really buys. They invest. They invest in things.


And every buying decision is an investment because nobody buys anything without, “Wait a minute. Am I going to get a return for this investment? Am I going to get a return?” See?


So if I don’t deliver enough value to you, there’s no way you will choose to do business with me. Period.


Kody Bateman: Yeah. No question about it. So yeah, well, let’s talk about a little bit about – you mentioned here that you developed a methodology. You developed a methodology that salespeople and companies around the world use. I love methodology. I love systems. I love things that people can follow. Talk to us a little bit about this methodology.


Mark Hunter: Yeah. The easiest one I love to talk about is C + C = C = O = P. Now, let me break this down. The first C is continuity. Continuity. Think about this. And again, whether it would be in sales, whether it would be in relationships, continuity, is this person going to see you enough? Do they know you? Before we got online here today, before we begin recording, I mentioned that I’ve known you for a long time by way of other people and you mentioned that you followed me for a long time by way of other people. See? There is that continuity.


Well then, that takes us to the next C which competence. You see, people only really want to spend time with people who are competent. Now, competence is not running around saying how smart I am. Competence is really asking you questions to help you share with me.


Now, what does all this do? We have continuity plus competence. And that creates confidence. And confidence cuts both ways. It’s not only with the customer but it’s with the salesperson. Confidence – if a relationship doesn’t have confidence in both parties, it’s not a relationship.


Then I get to the O which is opportunity. Opportunity. And if I try to put an opportunity ad on the table before there’s a level of confidence created, there’s no way I’m going to be successful.


And the P, well, as you can imagine, that’s profit. That’s profit. But I also like to say P as people. That’s now helping people become really because here’s my definition of sales, my definition of sales and my definition of leadership is really the same thing. It’s helping others see and achieve what they did not think was possible. Think about that for a moment.


Kody Bateman: Interesting. So what’s the best way to create confidence? You’ve got a new prospect online. You’re generating – you’re creating relationship with somebody new who may not know you very well. You’re beginning the sales process. You’re trying to assess need. What are the best ways to create confidence in that new person?


Mark Hunter: It’s not by having that pitch fastest. It’s not by saying, “Well, I’m going to sit here and share with you.” No. No. It’s simply just asking them a question. Here’s the number one technique I found. If I were to ask you a question, Kody, and we’ll say that you respond. And the number one thing I can do is come back and ask you a question on what you just shared with me.


Now, think about this for a moment. If I’m a salesperson, your potential customer, and I ask you a question, you share with me something. And I then turn around and ask you a question about what you just shared with me. That’s just three things. One, this person is actually listening to me. Two, this persona actually cares about what I say. And three, this is the money. This is the money. You’re now going to share with me even more valuable information.


See it’s really just engaging you in a conversation. You will take me. You will take me to your needs if I create an environment that you’re confident enough to be able to share those willingly with me.


Kody Bateman: OK. So I know there’s some old school, I call it this, there are old school salespeople listening to this and they may not like to be referred to as old school salespeople but they are listening to all of this and I get this often because we get a lot of this kind of messaging on this show. This show is about relationships, creating relationships. So we get a lot of this kind of messaging you’re talking about.


And traditional salespeople, the number one question always is, “OK, this is all great but when do I get to – listen, I got to close deal, man. I got to make some money. When do I get to – when do I get – you keep saying don’t pitch, don’t pitch. Well, when do I get to my pitch?” And that’s the number one question I get all the time.


Mark Hunter: Two pieces that I’m looking for. One, have you shared with me what I call a piece of proprietary information? Now, think about this for a moment. If you’re confident with me, you will share with me proprietary – this is information not known publicly. As soon as you share with me some piece of information that’s not known publicly that means there’s a level of confidence. OK? So that means now I’m safe in bringing this out but I now have to understand what your timeline for making a decision because maybe I’m talking to you about something but your timeline for making a decision isn’t for two years. OK. But no, maybe your timeline is now.


So when I know those two pieces – now, there are probably other pieces in there but if I focus in on just those two, then I know that guess what, I can put this opportunity on the table. Now, don’t think for a moment, “Well, does this mean that you can just put the opportunity on the table and the customer will choose to buy?” No. No. No. No. You have to move them to it. But you move them to it by framing up the value of the outcome, by framing up the value of the outcome.


I’ll give you a very quick example. I was using an app for a long time and it just died yesterday. It just died. I reached out to customer service. And they said, “Well, we’ve changed how we do things and the new price tag is X.” And I’m like, “I’m not going to pay that.”


But then what’s interesting is when – he then asked me a couple of questions about how I use it and so forth. I was like, “Oh yeah, here’s my credit card.” Boom! Yeah, because the value – he asked me a couple of questions about how I used it and what’s the value I get from it, the outcomes. And it was like, “Boom! Here’s my credit card.” I need it.


Kody Bateman: So ask questions, be a good listener, and then ask questions based on what you just heard.


Mark Hunter: Yes. Follow up – I look at every customer. I’m looking at Kody as an onion. That’s a really creepy thought but think about this way. You’re an onion and I’m peeling off layers in my conversation. You think about this. When you have an onion, you don’t eat that outer skin. You would peel those layers off. You get down to the core of the onion. That’s what you’re doing in a conversation.


And what happens is, so many times people try to close – this drives me nuts. Just because you have a heartbeat doesn’t mean you can buy from me. I mean let’s draw that. I’ve got a dog. My dog has a heartbeat. Let me tell you something. My dog is not buying anything from me.


Kody Bateman: Right.


Mark Hunter: I’ve got to really make sure that you line up with me. This is why so many people – and I love sharing this example. You can’t a Walmart shopper and make them a Nordstrom customer. It just doesn’t cut it. It just doesn’t cut it. I mean they’re both great business models. But if I’ve got a Walmart shopper, how can I sit there and try to make them a Nordstrom customer? It’s not going to happen.


Kody Bateman: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, this is really good. There is something. I was just reading in the introduction of this – your latest book, High-Profit Prospecting, and be patient with me for a second because I’m going to see if I can find this really fast.


Mark Hunter: I thought you’re going to challenge me like I better remember that page.


Kody Bateman: Well, this is interesting. This is actually in the introduction which was written by your friend, Mike Weinberg. He is the author of the Amazon bestselling books, New Sales. Simplified and Sales Management. Simplified. He also is with you in the OutBound. Is that right?


Mark Hunter: Yup.


Kody Bateman: You made a comment before the show started that the founders of the OutBound Conference, yourself, Mike Weinberg, Jeb Blount, and who else?


Mark Hunter: Anthony Iannarino.


Kody Bateman: And all of you guys are bestselling sales book guys.


Mark Hunter: You know what? It has just been absolutely a terrific ride. Yeah. I mean that’s how we got to know each other because we all respect each other immensely professionally and we’ve really come to really appreciate each other personally. We’re all very, very good friends, very good friends.


Kody Bateman: It’s interesting because a lot of you talk about the same things like you and Jeb Blount, I mean you’re prospecting guys. I mean you both talk about …


Mark Hunter: Oh yeah. No. We all talk – and what’s really cool is people say, “Well, gee, aren’t they a competitor?” No. I don’t feel – sales is a community. Business is a community. And we all get to live in it and it’s our job, it’s our duty. It’s your job, your duty. How do we create a more vibrant business sales community? That’s really – that’s the mission we’re on.


Kody Bateman: Well, what I love about it – I mean I’m a big student of personal development and the sales process, and prospecting is a hot button for me because I think in today’s day and age, people certainly don’t do enough of it. And I’m always in a position where I’m trying to figure out how to get people to do more of it. I run a successful direct sales company and we have independent sales reps and the number one reason for failure and I don’t have to tell you, you already know what it is, they just don’t prospect enough.


That’s why I would love our reps to go to the OutBound Conference to learn techniques and different things. I’d love our people to be on this show to learn about the importance of prospecting which comes into this message that is in the introduction by Mike Weinberg. He says, “Mark walks you through the why’s and how’s of effective prospecting. With a sharp sword, he slays the myths about prospecting and silences today’s idiot sales gurus who wrongly proclaimed that prospecting is dead.”


From there, he tackles your attitude, mindset, and motivation. And then I think it goes on to say a little bit later, “Prospecting doesn’t call you. There’s always something more attractive, more urgent, or easier to do. If you don’t carve out blocks time for prospecting it would not happen.” And then it also somewhere, I’m not sure where it was, but somewhere – I’ve got to find it because I’m going to – because all of this ties together. Trust me. It all ties together.


  1. So then you in the first chapter says – you get right – this is what I love about you. I mean like page 5, you are into nuts and bolts. You’re in to meat and potato stuff. You don’t – there’s not a lot of fluff with yours. I mean you get right to it.


You say right here, “When I ask them how many calls or contacts they’ve made in the last several months, the answer commonly is,” now I hope everybody listens to this because I want you to respond to all of this, “the answer commonly is, ‘I shouldn’t have to.’” So when you asked the question, how many calls have you made, here is the answer and I get this answer a lot too, “I shouldn’t have to because I’m doing so much on social media sites.”


Prospecting is as relevant and necessary today as it has ever been. Allowing yourself to believe you can build a huge business without having to prospect is simply crazy.


Now, we got to talk about this stuff because my gosh, I run into this all the time. And like you said there are gurus out there that say old prospecting is dead. You don’t have to call anybody anymore. You don’t have to go through that cold call or whatever. All you got to do is get on social media and be lovey-dovey with people for six months and then they will call you. Literally, that’s what I’m hearing. So talk to us about this and how do we – first of all, how effective is that and how do we get people back on the right mindset?


Mark Hunter: Well, let’s just put it this way. I’m not sure where you bank. But where I bank, my bank does not take clicks and likes and forwards. It just doesn’t. I see so many people sit there and say, “Well, gee, I’m going to post enough stuff out on social media.” You know what it is? These people are afraid to pick up their phone and engage.


Here is where I’m coming from. I can spend all day on social media, and social media is important. You and I are doing this here today and this is social media, right? I mean it’s social media.


Kody Bateman: Yup.


Mark Hunter: But it’s not the clocks of what we do. Now, it does help create awareness. What I come into play, I want to take an online connection and turn it into an offline conversation. That’s what I want to do. I want to take an online connection and turn it into an offline conversation.


Now, here’s where I’m trying to go at this. I can post all I want and I can get all these clicks and likes. It does not put dollars and cents into my bank account. I have a check right here I received from a client and it’s going to the bank and that’s not clicks and likes.


So what I’m talking about here is I’ve got to be able to line up and I’m going to use social media, much the same way that Coca-Cola is going to use advertising. Coca-Cola puts billboards out there, puts signs out. They have that type of stuff. But they augment it with very aggressive sales tactics to get you to buy. It’s because the vending machine is right there, the display in the store. Wherever you go, you see Coca-Cola product. And this is – I mean I can go off.


Here is what I find happening. People revert to social media because they are afraid to engage in a one-on-one conversation. And I’m going to come back to that in just a moment. They are afraid to engage in a one-on-one conversation. So they feel, if they just post enough stuff and do enough stuff that the world will be the path to their door. Well, it just doesn’t happen.


And let me tell you something. I know a lot of people who have spent a lot of money pushing social media and they’ve gone broke. See, here’s the whole thing. Social media has a long tail. It’s a long, long tail. It’s going to take you years to build that. In the meantime, you’re going to starve to death.


You see, one-on-one connection, this is what I tell people, this is the first exercise. Whenever I’m walking people through and I run into this all the time, people are afraid to prospect. People are afraid. I say, do you believe in how you can help people? Yeah. OK. Now, hold it. Do you believe what is the outcome? And I say take a piece of paper and take your ten most recent customers. What was the outcome you helped them with?


  1. Now, stop and think for a moment. These outcomes, you helped them achieve a greater level of success. You see, remember my definition of sales, helping others see and achieve what they didn’t think was possible.


See? So if you believe in this, you owe it to people to pick up the phone and call them. You owe it to them to reach out. You owe it to them to interrupt them because you can help them. The example I’m going to use and this is a little bit tacky. Bear with me.


If I was sitting at home some night and I look out the window and down the street, there’s a house on fire. Well, gee, that house was on fire. Well, let me put some post out on social media and let me do some research and let me connect, let me friend them first and let me do all this stuff and then maybe in a few months they’ll respond and I can tell them that their house is on fire. No! No! You’re going to call 911 and immediately run to that house and help them get out of the house. You’re going to interrupt them. If they maybe asleep, they may have fallen down. Who knows? But you’re going to help them. You’re going to interrupt them.


This is what we have to do in sales. If you believe then you owe it to people to interrupt them because you can help them.


Kody Bateman: OK. So let’s go through a little scenario. I just thought about this as you were explaining that. Let’s take my company. I have a company called SendOutCards.


Mark Hunter: Yeah.


Kody Bateman: We are …


Mark Hunter: Powerful. Powerful,


Kody Bateman: Thank you. Thank you. We’ve been around for a long time. We’ve been around for 15 years. We’ve sent out over 170 million cards, about 12 million gifts over the last 15 years mostly by salespeople. I mean these are mostly salespeople, small business owners will send out real greeting cards and real gifts as follow-up to their client’s customers and basically saying thank you with a tangible touch. And we talk a lot about the importance of tangible touches in creating relationship and showing people that you really care about them, and we have a tool that helps you do that.


Let’s go through this scenario. I have independent salespeople that represent that product. OK? So these salespeople represent an app from your phone that you can select or build your own greeting card, voice in a message that will type it on your card. They can add a picture. Click send to it. Add a box of brownies or whatever gift. Do it in a matter of a minute or a minute and a half. Make it very personal and send it off to our printer. We print that stuff and stamp it. Mail it out for them, first class mail. And it serves as a great tangible touch follow-up. And you can see why salespeople use it.


  1. So let’s – now, you’re going to consult us for a second. You are – I’m going to hire you for the next 5 minutes to consult my independent sales rep who represent this cool product called SendOutCards. And their job is to go out and share that with people and generate customers and new business. How would you tell them to get started? What would you have them do?


Mark Hunter: Yeah. What they are selling is they are selling time. They are helping potential customers create time. Now, think about this for a moment. OK? So you have one of your people and they are going out talking and saying, “Hey, this is why you need SendOutCards. And let me tell you something, the brownies are awesome. That’s just between you and I. Let’s not share that with anybody. But the brownies are awesome. OK?”


Anyway, back to our regular podcasting. Anyway, so here’s the whole thing. You’re creating time because here’s the whole thing. If I received brownies from somebody and well, Bart, Bart Ratliff, wonderful friend, he sent me the brownies and SendOutCards. What did I do? I immediately picked up the phone and called him. What did I do? I created time. I created time because this powerful gift I received and I’m the customer receiving this and well naturally, I’m going to contact the person.


And think about this. Salespeople, what’s the number one problem they have? They have a problem creating a pipeline. They have a problem creating connections. So here you have SendOutCards and the beautiful gifts and so forth that you have with that. What is it doing? It’s create – it’s speeding up the connection. It’s gold.


More sales – there are more salespeople that don’t make quota than make quota. And it’s not that they don’t make quota, they run out of time. They run out of time. If they had more time, they could make quota.


SendOutCards allows you to speed up time. That’s what I’d be selling.


Kody Bateman: Interesting. Very, very good. OK. So as far as prospecting goes, let’s talk about prospect. Let’s take that same independent sales rep representing this tool called SendOutCards and it all begins. The sales process begins with prospecting. Who would you – I mean who did they prospect? Who did they talk to? How would you advise them to get started to get their pipeline full of prospects? What kind of things would you have them do?


Mark Hunter: Well, I’m going to have them go after anybody, anybody who is in sales or anything close related sales, real estate agents, financial planners, accountants, anybody who is in any kind of level of sales. That’s the first piece that I’m going to go after. And what I’m going to do is I’m going to move up the food chain. I’m going to move up the food chain and say, “Do I want to get one person or do I want to get this financial planner group where there are ten people in its office, 12 people, 20 people in its office?” Because now if I can get all 20 of them using because here’s the whole thing, you’ve seen this time and time again, somebody in an office becomes an evangelist for SendOutCards. And what happens? Everybody begins using it.


Kody Bateman: That’s right.


Mark Hunter: Everybody begins using it. So I’m going to go and we’ll say I’m new. I’m new selling SendOutCards. I’m going to be targeting these financial planner firms, these real estate offices where there were six, eight. And I like financial planners because why? Because they deal with a higher-end ticket. OK? And as a result, they tend to think long term. OK? So I’m going to grab them. But I’m going to grab real estate because they are maybe a good group of six or eight real estate people, these brokers guys, six or eight. Wow! You get one person and they’re all going to be on it.


But see here’s the whole – what I love about SendOutCards is it is an evangelistic product. When somebody gets it, when somebody starts receiving it, when somebody sees somebody else having results, they want to jump on it. They want to jump into it. And that’s the power of SendOutCards.


Kody Bateman: Well, yeah, I appreciate that. Part of what said, we kind of refer to that as what we call bottom up selling. So the perfect analogy that I give, if your Uncle Joe runs the local Chevrolet dealership and they sell 100 cars a month out of the dealership, traditional sales is going to go take our product to the management of the Chevrolet dealership, the gurus, the top guys and say, “Look, we have this great service. All your sales reps should use it. Blah, blah blah.” That’s called top down selling.


What we train our people to do is bottom up selling. Go to the sales rep that’s on the floor and have them use the system and follow up and say thank you to somebody for buying a car from them. And like you said, allow them to be the evangelist in the office and it sells up. So bottom up selling is what we call it. And that works for a lot of different types of products and services.


Sometimes top down selling is the way to go. In fact, that kind of leads me into my next question. You got two books out. The first one and I’m really excited to read the first book that you have titled High-Profit Selling and I believe that’s High-Profit Selling. And what is the subtitle of that book?


Mark Hunter: You know what? I’m too far away over there. But anyway, it’s how to close at full price without the discount.


Kody Bateman: Right. OK. So, how to close a full price without the discount? So High-Profit Selling, it’s literally the title. It’s literally keeping those margins down.


Mark Hunter: Yeah.


Kody Bateman: In a nutshell, just give us a summary of that book. What am I going to learn in that book?


Mark Hunter: What you’re going to learn is, sell to the customer’s outcome that they’re looking for, not your outcome. So many times what happens is, let’s use a car dealership. The car salesperson sees the value of the car X but the customer sees the value of the car at Y. That’s why they’ll pay Y. That’s why they will pay more for that car because they want this, this, this, this, this, because of the perceived value. Sell it to the value, not the cost. And that’s one of the big things that I talk about.


And here’s the other piece in that. So many times what happens is, we wind up discounting because we think price is the obstacle. Price is rarely the obstacle. Price is rarely the obstacle. It’s because I just didn’t demonstrated the value and it didn’t fit my piece. Go back to this example I was sharing with you earlier in terms of this app and this person sent me back a note. I got on the phone with them and I initially was turned off by the price. He could easily have cut the price. But no. What did he do? He got me thinking. He got me asking questions. See? Ask question.


More discounts are given because the sales person doesn’t believe in the price that are given based on the demands of the customer. That’s a really sad comment. That’s a really sad comment.


So what I want to do is when I – when you understand the full value, the full outcome, you’ll pay at full price. This is why – this is why I say, you can’t take a Walmart shopper and make them a Nordstrom customer. This is why I say prospecting, I’ve got to seek out prospects that fit my perfect customer, my perfect client. Don’t chase the person with a heartbeat. That’s just like my dog.


Kody Bateman: Boy that’s so important. It really is. Just filtering properly and making sure you’re talking to the right people at the right time. You might be talking to the right people but at the wrong time.


Mark Hunter: Oh, huge! Huge! I mean that happens time and time again because again, it’s amazing how many times decisions – and this is the other thing, when we know what our customer’s buying cycle is, it’s amazing how much more effective. So what I always say is, I’m going to take my prospects and I’m going to segmentize. Segmentize. That’s a technical term. I’m going to create various buckets of my perfect clients. And see, they’re going to probably have different buying cycles because of the outcomes that they’re looking for.


And what is it I’m going to do then? Then I’m going to be able to position my product. You know what things I always crack up? I always crack up over is in the spring when we get to graduation season. A lot of people are having graduation parties for their kids and so forth. It’s amazing how many windows get washed. It’s amazing how much landscaping gets done.




And I’ve always said a landscaper or a window washer could just target, where did a high school seniors live? Those are the home I kind of target.


Kody Bateman: Yeah. Targeting is very, very important. OK. So High-Profit Selling, very anxious to read that. I highly recommend that people get that. And then of course, your number three bestselling sales book of all time, High-Profit Prospecting. Give us a quick summary. What am I going to pick up from this book? I mean just in a nutshell, what – I mean more than just the headline itself, obviously, it’s about prospecting. But what am I really going to learn here?


Mark Hunter: I’m going to show you how to actually narrow your focus to be prospecting with fewer prospects so you can close them faster. Too many people – it’s not about having a thousand people in your prospecting funnel, your prospecting pipeline. I want only a few that I can close quickly because when I can close quickly, I create more value for you and I actually create more value for me because it’s heck a lot simpler for me. Because how many times have we seen people where they get this pipeline that just oh, convoluted. You know what it is? It’s a sewer pipe. It’s a sewer pipe. What I want you to have is I want you to have a water tap.


Kody Bateman: Nice.


Mark Hunter: Where boom, you put that prospect in and boom! Bring them through.


Kody Bateman: So you’re saying fewer prospects in the pipeline but the right ones …


Mark Hunter: Which I can spend more time with because when I can spend more time with fewer prospects, guess what? I learn value. When I learn the value, I can close the full price.


Kody Bateman: Well, when you spend more time with fewer prospects, you’re creating relationship. You’re creating rapport and dialog and you’re creating relationship with somebody. And what happens and this is what we teach all them and I’ve got this book title Power of Human Connection. And in this book, we feature all kinds of stories about people that spend time with their prospect or their customer and as a result, they generate this magical world called a reference.


Mark Hunter: Wow!


Kody Bateman: And we often say that the most powerful referral is an unsolicited one. It’s one that somebody gives you because they really feel like they’ve been in good hands with you and so they want to refer you to a friend or somebody because they know that you’re going to take the same interest in them that they took in you. So talk to us about the referral process. You’re saying fewer people in the pipeline but the right people. Spend more time with those people. Generate relationship. And as a result, you will generate referral business. So how important is referrals in today’s sales process?


Mark Hunter: Referrals are absolutely huge. And think about this. If your business, if you’re not on upward trend line with referrals in your business, you’re in, you’re out. And now, you could have some dips. But basically, if it’s not an upward trend referrals, something is wrong with your business process. So that is number one. That’s a question that whenever I’m working with salespeople and whenever I’m working with an account.


But here’s what I want to do. When I can spend more time with you, I create a deeper relationship with you. And when I create a deeper relationship with you, you’re going to be much more likely to refer me. You’re going to be much more likely to bring my name up in a conversation. I’m building equity with you. And this is why it’s so important that I close the sale but I stay in touch with you. I have to make sure – this is where again, where SendOutCards becomes so critical because it allows me to create this continuity. Oh, go back to the C + C = C. Guess what? I’m creating more continuity, creating more competence, creating more confidence. And now, the O instead of opportunity becomes outward because now you the customer outward with me to other P, other people, creating referrals. See? It’s an amazing circle.


Kody Bateman: Yeah, it is. I got to tell you, Mark, it’s just fascinating to listen to you. I love the approach, the teaching approach that you use. It really kind of pulls you in and that’s what I’m counting on in this book. I know in the first 10 pages that I just read, I mean I was drawn in. In fact, I normally get on the podcast about 10 minutes prior to the start time. If you remember, I got on this about one minute prior to the start time. And honestly, the reason was is I was over in the corner read – I couldn’t stop reading. I mean it’s – I’m really excited about this book so I had to get it out.


Mark Hunter: I’m honored. I’m honored. Thank you.


Kody Bateman: Yeah. In closing, I always like to ask a couple of questions from all of our listeners because we like to kind of get different answers and we analyze these different answers we get on the same question. The first question is, if you were to be remembered for one thing, what would it be?


Mark Hunter: Impacting others in a positive manner.


Kody Bateman: OK. So that’s not necessarily sales-oriented. It’s just life-oriented.


Mark Hunter: That is life-oriented. That is – to me, that’s much bigger than sales. Sales is purely the vehicle. My objective is to influence and impact people in a positive manner. And if I do that, hey, you know what? Life is good.


Kody Bateman: You’ll do that for free?


Mark Hunter: I’ll do that for free.


Kody Bateman: OK.


Mark Hunter: But you know what’s funny? If you do that, you’ll get compensation along the way.


Kody Bateman: That’s right. That’s right.


Mark Hunter: It takes care of itself. Yeah.


Kody Bateman: Gary – what is it? Gary – how do you say his name? Vaynerchuk?


Mark Hunter: Vaynerchuk, yeah.


Kody Bateman: Vaynerchuk. He did a post on social media that I thought was really powerful, very simple concept that said, “Find out what it is you love to do and just do that for the rest of your life.”


Mark Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. OK. There are some things. Writing poetry may not put a lot of money.


Kody Bateman: Right. That’s right. That’s right. You got to do that. But I think it’s important, but I think it’s important principally, even if you can’t make a livelihood of it, you should be doing it. Poetry is it, you may not make a living out of it but you should be writing poetry because if you’re doing what you love then you’re going to be in a different mindset. You’re going to be in a different vibrational energy. It’s going to guide you to the monetary things that you should be doing.


Mark Hunter: That’s a huge piece because you can’t separate business from personal life. I truly believe it’s really all one. If we’re a jerk outside of work, we’re going to be a jerk at work. If we’re a jerk at work, we’re going to be a jerk at home. This is where I truly sit there and say, “You look at the real leaders. They’re not just leaders at work. They are leaders in life.”


Kody Bateman: Yeah.


Mark Hunter: And that’s really what it’s all about.


Kody Bateman: Yeah, for sure. OK. One other question. Your favorite book of all time and why.


Mark Hunter: Oh man! Wow! I’m going to share with you a book that just came out just this last year, Principles by Ray Dalio.


Kody Bateman: OK.


Mark Hunter: Now, it just came out. So it hasn’t stood the test of time but wow! What an amazing book. That’s a great book.


Kody Bateman: Yeah, that’s excellent.


Mark Hunter: Yeah. I mean I could easily put the Bible in there. But that can be kind of a throwaway and a lot of people might say that and I’m trying bring in something that – so I would say Principles.


Kody Bateman: Yeah, interesting. I’ll have to grab a copy of that. It would be great. It’s interesting. I’ve been waiting for, and I’ve asked this question in numerous formats, I’ve always been waiting for an author to mention their own book. Now, a lot of people would say, “Well, if the author mentions their own book, that’s kind of an egotistical whatever kind of thing.” And it could be.


But here’s the reason that I’m interested in that. LeBron James was actually interviewed I don’t know, that was a long time ago. It was when he was just getting started in his career. I think it was right out of high school. He went into the NBA and he was asked the question, who were his favorite players of all time that inspired him the most, and he mentioned some of the top players like – I think he mentioned Wilt Chamberlaine and he mentioned Michael Jordan and he mentioned Magic Johnson. But the last person he mentioned was LeBron James. And he was young. He was only 18, 19 years old and he mentioned his name along with the others as to the person that inspires his career the most.


And at first, I thought, “Wow! That was kind of a …” but if you really think about, I mean look at his career, look at LeBron James’ career, he knows who he is. He knew who he was as an 18-year-old. And a lot of times as an author, you know what your message is, you know what you’re trying to convey. You’re trying to do it in the best way possible. So I don’t know, I just thought that was kind of interesting.


Mark Hunter: No, that’s a very interesting thing I guess. Maybe – I don’t know if I could ever say that from a sense of …


Kody Bateman: I don’t know if I could either. I don’t know if I would ever say my – yeah. I don’t know if I would either but I do think it’s interesting. I might. Maybe in my own personal journal I might say that. I probably wouldn’t do it in public.


Mark Hunter: Yeah. It’s like the person who says they’re a great manager. I’m a great leader.


Kody Bateman: Right.


Mark Hunter: And if somebody ask to walk around and say they’re a great manager or a great leader, they’re probably not because it should show from their actions. Now, I give LeBron James credit. He truly has earned that. But yeah, to say that as an 18 or a 19-year-old, wow! That’s something.


Kody Bateman: And then to see what he did with it.


Mark Hunter: Yeah.


Kody Bateman: To see what he did with it over the years.


Mark Hunter: Yeah.


Kody Bateman: So – well listen, we sure appreciate you taking the time to be on the show with us. Now, where can people get a copy of these two books?


Mark Hunter: Well, best place is jump out to Amazon. And hey, before we go, we got to talk about OutBound Conference.


Kody Bateman: Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do it.


Mark Hunter: But anyway, Amazon or Barnes & Noble, best place to get High-Profit Prospecting. That’s the main book. Go grab that. My website is The Sales Hunter. You know, it’s funny. That is my real name. People – I get asked this all the time, “Is that your real name?” Yes, it is. That is the name I was born with. Thank you. And it works out perfect. The Sales Hunter, yeah. It’s great. It’s great. So that is the domain name.


But hey, let’s talk about OutBound Conference because we talked a little bit about it at the beginning. Really, you’re going to be there. We’ve got a lot of people coming. This is so over the top. And I know you put on some outstanding events and not to take – but hey, you know what? I think your events and OutBound, it just sets the bar at a very high level. Let’s just leave it at that.


Kody Bateman: Yeah.


Mark Hunter: I mean it’s cool.


Kody Bateman: Well, we’re excited for the OutBound Conference coming up at Atlanta, Georgia, April 23rd through 26th. And there’s a $100 off a code for friends of this podcast and you’ll be able to go on the site. Where can people go find out more information about OutBound?


Mark Hunter: Well, That’s the place. I mean we got a lineup of speaker. Bob Burg is coming, a lot of people. We have Victor Antonio, Jeffrey Gitomer, Andrea Waltz is coming, Colin Francis, Bart Ratliff. A lot of your people know Bart. He is going to be speaking. It’s huge. It’s huge. It’s going to be a great event.


Kody Bateman: Excellent.


Mark Hunter: Yeah. And it’s only the third year we’ve been doing it. But every year, we keep doubling the attendance.


Kody Bateman: It’s fantastic.


Mark Hunter: Cool.


Kody Bateman: Well, we’re real excited about that. Excited to send our reps that way. And like I said, I’d love for our independent reps at SendOutCards to learn more from incredible leaders like yourself and others who are going to be there. But we appreciate – Mark, I appreciate you as a person. I appreciate all that you’re doing for the profession of sales and thank you so much for being with us on the show today. Mark Hunter, everybody! Make sure you go out there and get his books.


So there you have it, my friends. Stay tune for another version of Relationship Marketing with Kody B. that will be coming up a week from now. And we’ll talk to you all later. Take care. We’ll see you now.

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