Success Stories

Relationship Marketing With Kody B: Bob Burg

Communications skills: It’s important to know how communication affects your influence on sales to the consumer. When it comes to influencing sales, Bob Burg should be in your sphere of influence. In this week’s Relationship Marketing With Kody B. and Bob Burg, learn how to lead by acquiring these communication and leadership skills.

Kody Bateman: Hello everybody! This is Kody Bateman. Welcome to a brand new version of our Relationship Marketing Podcast. Boy! We’re sure excited for our guest that we have on tonight. We’ve had some amazing guests that have come on to the show over the last several weeks. A lot of top sales professionals have been on with us, giving us some gold nuggets and great things. And boy, today we got a huge treat for you. We have celebrity in the house today. I mean I am super excited about having this guy as a guest. We’ve been trying to get with him for quite some time now, finally had the opportunity to do it, none other than Mr. Bob Burg.

Most of you have heard of Bob Burg. He is the co-author of The Go-Giver series of books. Bob, welcome to the show with us.

Bob Burg: Hey, Kody! Great to be with you. Always love speaking with you. It has been too long.

 

Kody Bateman: It has been a long time. I remember some of those early conversations we had years and years ago as The Go-Giver was out there. And I remember we had some great conversation back in those days because we had similar philosophies. I mean obviously, Go-Giver was huge for me to even see that – even see the title of your book was huge for me because we’ve been teaching the concept of what you send out is what comes back.

 

BNI, we do a lot of stuff at BNI. They have the giver’s gain philosophy.

 

Bob Burg: Absolutely. Sure.

 

Kody Bateman: And we have the philosophy, give for the sake of giving. Detach yourself from getting anything in return. We give to give, not to get. We teach seminars on it, have done since day 1. So when we connected the first time and you had this whole Go-Giver thing, it was like synergy galore. It was great. And my goodness, since then you have been – what an influencer you have been throughout the world.

 

Bob Burg: Thank you.

 

Kody Bateman: Not only with this book. In fact, I’m going to – if you don’t mind, I think I need to do a little bit of bio introduction for those of you – I’m sure most people that are listening have heard of this guy, definitely have heard of The Go-Giver series. But man, you’ve got to hear some of this stuff so you really understand who we’re going to be listening to today.

 

Bob Burg is a sought-after speaker at company leadership and sales conferences on the topics of the core of The Go-Giver books, a former television personality, top-producing salesperson. Bob has shared the platform with some of today’s top business leaders, broadcast personalities, coaches, athletes, political leaders, including a former US President.

 

In addition to co-authoring the bestselling Go-Giver books with John David Mann, Bob has authored a number of popular books including the critically acclaimed Endless Referrals which I highly recommend that you read, great book, Network Your Everyday Contacts Into Sales, and Adversaries Into Allies. His total book sales are well over a million copies.

 

American Management Association named Bob one of the 30 Most Influential Leaders. He is one of Inc.’s 100 Great Leadership Speakers. Richtopia named him one of the top 200 Most Influential Authors in the World. We could go on and on and on. His bio is another three paragraphs but I think you get the gist here.

 

Latest work, real excited about this, his latest work is The Go-Giver Influencer and I have a feeling that we’ll talk quite a bit today about that word “influence.” But Bob, like I said, what a pleasure it is to have you with us.

 

Well, let’s jump right in. First of all, I’ve got these books right here. This is – I mean this is – just walk through an airport or walk through Barnes & Noble, whatever. This is everywhere. I mean you’ll see this book, those of you watching on YouTube, you’ll see this book. I just put it up there so people could see it.

 

And then his brand new one is The Go-Giver Influencer. It’s purple. It has got kind of the same branding on following his Go-Giver brand which is super cool. If you have not read Go-Giver, my goodness, make sure that you read it or listen to it. Fantastic information.

 

First of all, you and John David Mann, your writing style is very unique. You have a story format that you use. I kind of reference you similar to an Og Mandino. Og Mandino was my favorite author of all time.

Bob Burg: Right. One of mine too.

 

Kody Bateman: Because he wrote in a parable or a story format and you kind of do the same thing. So tell us a little bit about how – what is The Go-Giver and how did it all come about?

 

Bob Burg: Yeah. In Og’s book, The Greatest Salesman in the World, that was my first parable I ever read. That was one of those when you started in sales, that was one of the books you read. And it made a huge difference in my life. And eventually before he passed, I got to open for him a couple of times in public events and what a thrill that was for me, opening for one of my heroes. So that was terrific.

 

And with these books, Kody, John is the real storyteller. I mean he is a great writer. I’m a how-to guy or I’m step 1, step 2, step 3. And all of my books before The Go-Giver series were how-to books. John, thankfully, agreed to co-author these with me. He is really the lead write and storyteller. And so the fact that the books have done so well and they read as they do, that’s John. So it’s really shout out, kudos to John David Mann for that.

 

The premise of The Go-Giver is again, just align with you, who you are and what you do and it simply says that shifting your focus, shifting your focus from getting to giving. And when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing value to others and understanding that doing so is not only a nice way, a pleasant way of conducting business. It’s the most financially profitable way as well.

 

Kody Bateman: OK. So is that really true? Because there are a lot of naysayers out there who say, “Yeah, this new age philosophy of give, give, give,” there are. I mean there are still a lot of people that think, “Yeah. I don’t know. I need to go close a deal.” So when you say it is the most financially rewarding, there are people listening right now who say, “All right, Bob. That’s great. Show me some proof. Give me some proof of that.”

 

Bob Burg: Sure! Well, and it would make sense that they would ask that because we’ve sort of been brought up where the bad guy is the one who gets. And that’s – hey, here’s a new story that you’ll never see the networks lead with. Corporate CEO treats people well. I mean it doesn’t sell. I hear they workshop that one. It didn’t work.

 

So no, it’s much more exciting to hear about the end runs and tight goes [0:08:02] [Phonetic] and all of those. But let’s really look at it from not some woo-woo kind of thing, “Oh, just give and be …” no! It’s not that at all.

 

Often, when I speak at a conference, so one of the first things I will say is, “Nobody is going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet.”

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: And we all laugh because we know that’s true. No one is buying from us for that reason. No one is going to buy from you because you need the money and no one is going to buy from you because you were a nice person who really means well. They’re going to buy from you because they believe they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so.

 

And in a free-market-based economy that we live and when I say free market, I simply mean no one is forced to buy from anyone else, in a free-market-based economy, that’s the only reason why anyone should buy from you. Because of this, Kody, it means that the entrepreneur, the business owner, the salesperson must focus on bringing value to another human being or that person is not going to do business with them.

 

And so it really – it’s totally rational and logical. When you can move your focus off of yourself and place it on to the other person looking to make their life better, looking to bring value to their life in a way they see as being of value, people feel good about you. People begin to know you. They like you. They trust you. They feel safe with you and comfortable with you. They want to do business with you. And so this is the person who consistently is going to get the business.

 

When we think of selling, there’s such a backwards notion with so many people about what selling is. They can say, “Well, selling is trying to convince someone to buy something they don’t want or need. That’s not selling. That’s called being a con artist, OK? No! The focus is on the con artist, not on the other person. No. Selling by definition is simply discovering what the other person wants, needs, or desires and helping them to get it.

 

Kody Bateman: OK.

 

Bob Burg: The focus has to be on that.

 

Kody Bateman: No question. And we’ve had this actually come up before with some of other guests. And I think it’s important to talk about is that in the process of doing that, you assess your prospect’s needs. You’re there to serve them. And there are times and this is hard for salespeople to get, there are times when you know in your mind that what you’re offering is not what’s best for them. And you may even know that what they need is something that you don’t sell. It might even be a competitor of yours. And it’s very hard for them because we teach and I know you teach in those situations, if you’re there to serve, you’re going to tell them what you think is best for them to do regardless if it’s your product or not.

 

Kody Bateman: Absolutely. And this in many ways has to do with character, right? And we know that when someone has character, they stand for something. In other words, they act congruently with their values. And if your highest value in terms of being a salesperson is to provide value, to provide the highest service to your customer, to that person in front of you, you certainly do the best you can to do that, and part of that at times is you’re not the right person.

 

And when you think about it, that’s just the best thing you can do even for selfish purposes because think about it.

 

Bob Burg: Right.

 

Kody Bateman: Right? I mean when you can tell someone that – and it doesn’t come up often but when it does, when you can tell someone, “Hey, this isn’t the best thing for you. This isn’t your best option. Your best option would be based on what I’m hearing from what you are looking for would be this, this, or that. I can refer you to someone and so forth.” Think of the goodwill that has been engendered in this case.

 

Bob Burg: No question. This is a person who if it works out, they can come back to buy from you in the future. Sure, they will. But they will tell others about you and probably will end up working in your advantage plus the person who you gave that business to referred, they will probably end up doing that. But even if not, it doesn’t matter because if you know that you’re willing to do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do then that means when you do have someone, a prospective customer in front of you who you know you can serve, that belief, that feeling comes across and you’re a better salesperson.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah. It’s not just about you being in front of that particular person. It’s not just about that person. It’s about every single person that that person knows.

 

Bob Burg: Yeah.

 

Kody Bateman: So if you come across with integrity and you come across with character and you come across being trustworthy, they may not need your product but I guarantee you, they know someone who does and they’re going to refer people over to you. And these are all common sense things you would think. You would think these are common sense thing because it tells you the need to be taught. In fact, I’m going to ask you a question here.

 

If you took ten random salespeople, let’s say we go to a car dealership. I don’t know if that’s the best example or not but whatever. We go to a car dealership and we line up ten salespeople. They are at that car dealership. And we ask the question, why are you in sales? Why are you in sales?

 

Now, my question to that is this, what is the answer going to be? How many of those ten people are going to say, “Well, I’m in sales to make money?” And how many of those ten people are going to say, “I’m in sales to add value?” Just randomly. If you just randomly did it, what do you think that would be like? I just thought of that question.

 

Bob Burg: I don’t know what the percentage would be but I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you this though. By and large, the ones who are the top producers are in business for the purpose of bringing value to the lives of their customer. OK? The money is the result. This is why we say that money is simply an echo of value.

 

Kody Bateman: So I would venture to say this. The 80-20 rule, 20% of the salespeople make 80% of the money and that’s how it works. So the 20% are there to create value. They make 80% of the money. The 80% are there to make money and they only make the 20%. And so, I just – it’s just logic. It’s just kind of how it works.

 

And so, I think it’s really important especially people who are in sales management and sales training. Such an important principle to continually bring home to people the importance of being of service to others. Go-Giver. Go out and give. Send out to give. Give for the sake of giving. Detach yourself from getting anything.

 

Bob Burg: Well, I love that because – it’s interesting that you say that because there are a lot of people who will say, “What Bob and John are saying is, give without expectation.” And I kind of want to – and I know it’s semantics but I’m not totally comfortable with that saying. And I’ll tell you why. Because I want people to expect good things to happen. Now, I know what they mean is without expectation that it has to happen. And that’s where attachment – detachment comes in and that’s what you were saying. Give without attachment to the result.

 

In other words, do you prefer good things are going to happen? Sure! Do we expect that good things are going to happen? Absolutely! I want people to have positive expectation. But you give without attachment with the results. So I love that. That means that you know that if you’re doing the best you can, if you know you are looking to provide immense value to everyone whose lives you touch, well, you know that the money is going to come. Not – again, not for some mystical, magical reason. It has nothing to do with that. It just makes sense.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah, no question about it. Well, let’s talk – so that’s The Go-Giver and boy, if you don’t have a copy, you want to make sure you get one. I’m sure you’re available on Amazon and all that kind of stuff or at any bookstore. In fact, that’s close to a million copies sold, right? About 850,000 copies of this have been sold. And like I said, you sold well over a million books with some of your other books, brand new one out, The Go-Giver.

 

I want to talk a little bit about this one. I haven’t had a chance to read this yet. I just got this copy. I’m super excited for a weekend read so I’m looking forward to that. Big word right here, influence. We hear that word a lot. We hear – I mean now with social media, we got the people of influence. I mean that’s a huge word. So what does that word even mean?

 

Bob Burg: Yeah. And I love that you asked that because I think it’s so important that we define our terms. We check our premises and make sure we’re all coming from the same because you can say a word like influence nowadays and it has got so many different meanings, depending upon who you ask.

 

So I think influence basically can be defined two different ways. On a very basic level, a basic level, we can define influence is simply the ability to move a person or persons to a desired action, typically within the context of a specific goal. By definition, that’s influence. That is its definition. But I don’t believe in any way that that’s the substance or the essence of influence. The essence of influence is pull. Pull as opposed to push, as in how far can you push a rope? And we know the answer is not very far, at least not very fast or very effectively which is why great influencers don’t push. You never hear people say, “Wow! That Tom or that Joan, she is so influential. She has a lot of push.”

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: She sure is pushy or, “Wow! What a great leader!” No, of course not. They would say, “Joan is very influential. She has a lot of pull.”

 

Kody Bateman: Pull, that’s right.

 

Bob Burg: That’s what influence is. It’s an attraction. Great influencer or what we call genuine influencers attract people, Kody, first to themselves and then to their ideas. And they do this again not through pushing their ideas on others, not through pushing their will on others, not through being pushy, but through its opposite, pull.

 

Now, we say, “OK. Well, how do you do that? How does that pull happen? How does that manifest itself?” Well, I think that any genuine influencer understands at a very heart level what I believe was the underlying premise of Dale Carnegie’s classic, How to Win Friends and Influence People, and this is where he wrote and I think this really said it all. It’s where he wrote, “Ultimately, people do things for their reasons, not our reasons.” So the genuine influencer self-questions. They ask themselves questions to check their focus and make sure it’s to the right place of the other person.

 

So they’ll ask themselves questions such as, “How does what I’m asking this person to do, how does it align with their goals, with their wants, with their needs, with their desires? How does what I want this other person to do, how does it align with their values?” Or you could say, “What problems am I helping them to solve? What am I helping them to get or attain that they want that they can’t without my guidance and so forth?”

 

And when asking ourselves these questions thoughtfully, intelligently, genuinely, authentically, not as a way to manipulate another human being into doing our will but as a way of building everyone in the process. Now, we have come a lot closer to earning that person’s commitment rather than trying to depend on some type of compliance.

 

Kody Bateman: Kind of the old school influence, you said that word manipulation and some – a lot of times when people think of themselves as influencers, pushing if you will, that word manipulation comes up. It’s a way to manipulate people to an area that you want them to go. But what you talked about is pulling on the rope. You pull people towards what they want, not what you want.

 

Bob Burg: Right.

 

Kody Bateman: I think that’s real important. I remember – yeah, go ahead.

 

Bob Burg: No, go ahead.

 

Kody Bateman: I was just going to say it kind of reminds me when I first started doing, I do these personal development seminars around the concept of acting on your promptings and reaching out in kindness to other people. And we’ve been doing those seminars for a lot of years. When I first started doing way back in the day just – the first 8-hour event that I did on my own, do you ever – do you remember your first full day seminar you ever did?

 

Bob Burg: Oh boy!

 

Kody Bateman: I mean like the first one I ever did, I’ve done 30-minute speeches and 20-minute speeches and like I made the core mistake. Thirty minutes in, I give them like – I did like a 30-minute speech and worn out. I’m like, “Oh my gosh! I got seven more hours to go here. What am I going to do?”

 

[Laughter]

 

Kody Bateman: But in that – in some of those early events, I used to do this thing where – maybe I’d bring this thing back, I don’t know. I haven’t taught this for a lot of years. But I used to bring this thing, I, ME, I put up the letters I with a slash and ME versus YOU/WE. So a lot of people in sales in particular, their focus is I and ME. A lot of people when they are trying to become influencers, when they are trying to create an audience on social media, it’s I and ME. Look how great I am. It’s all about ME versus YOU/WE.

 

So in sales process or even in the becoming an influencer process, if you make it about the other person, it’s about you and what can we do together is kind of that shift I think that you’ve been talking about throughout your books.

 

Bob Burg: Yeah. That’s such a great point. It’s funny. I often say and probably one of the basic premises that I’ve always hopefully shared throughout the years I’ve been doing this and I think it’s somewhere in every one of my books is where I say that the golden rule of business, of sales, of networking, of life, relationships, whatever, is that all things being equal. People will do business with and refer business to and we could say, and allow themselves to be led or influenced by those people they know, like, and trust.

 

And there’s simply no faster, more powerful, or more effective way of eliciting those feelings toward you in someone than by again, genuinely and authentically moving from that I or Me focus to that other focus, making your win all about the other person’s win. And when you do that and you do that consistently and constantly and you become – you get to develop a reputation as that person who does that, that’s when people really just feels so good about you, that trust is really right there and you develop that army of personal walking ambassadors.

 

And one of my favorite authors and speakers, Stephen M. R. Covey, son of the famous Dr. Stephen Covey of 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, well, Stephen M. R.’s book, The Speed of Trust is one of my all-time – I mean I think I hold that up at every seminar I do, every program because it’s such a great book, and one of the things he says in there is that trust is the very root and source of your influence.

 

Kody Bateman: Wow!

 

Bob Burg: And you don’t cultivate by, as you were saying, I and me. You cultivate trust through you and we. So I just love what you said.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah, that’s good stuff. That’s good stuff. When I was growing up, my mother used to always say to me, parents are cool because parents plant seeds, my parents always planted seeds into my subconscious which really helped me later in life and she used to always say a couple of things. First she would say, “Kody, you are a special boy.” I’m just a little kid. I’m a little kid. She would say that to me all the time, “Kody, you are a special boy.” And then she would say, “I want you to remember, if you will remember this you will always be happy.” She says, “You need to find out who you are and then give yourself away to other people.”

 

So what do you think about that advice from a mother? Find out who you are so that you can give yourself away to others.

 

Bob Burg: Yeah. Well, I think you and I were both very blessed in the parent department to have parents who encouraged us and helped us really have a foundation of self-competence and the ability to grow. And I mean I think what she said to you was just such great advice because when we can really kind of discover what we are here for, even in our own minds and then what’s the best thing we can do, both of our self and others, is to give that away, is to share that, to make that a part of our life and hopefully make it a part of the lives of those people we touch. So yeah, I just love that.

 

Kody Bateman: Good stuff. OK. So listen, in this new book, Genuine Influence, there are 5 secrets, 5 secrets of genuine influence. There are some really cool stuff here. I don’t know if we’re going to be able to get through all five. But I want to talk about a couple.

 

Bob Burg: Sure.

 

Kody Bateman: The first one, I love the word emotion. Whenever I hear emotion, I love the study about emotions and what emotions are and those kind of things. So your first thing is mastering your emotions and you have this thing called the Seatbelt Principle of Emotions. So when I saw that in your summary, I’m like, “OK. I need to know – anything with the word emotions, I need to know.” And you’re always very clever in the way you write stuff. So the Seatbelt Principle of Emotions, I got to know what that is.

 

Bob Burg: Yeah. So let me kind of set that up because it all begins with mastering our emotions. It’s only when we’re in control of our own emotions that we’re even in a position to take a negative – a potentially negative situation or person and turn it into a win for everyone involved. And yet, how often do we allow ourselves based on what someone else has said or done? We allow it to push our emotional hot buttons and we cause ourselves, we allow ourselves to be upset, victimized, frustrated, angry, and we say or do something that is totally counterproductive to what we’re looking to accomplish.

 

Now, we know this yet we do it anyway. Why? Well, I think the answer is because we’re human beings and it’s part of human nature. We are, as human beings, we are emotional creatures. Now, we’d like to think we’re logical and to a certain extent of course, we are. But we are basically emotion-driven. We make major decisions based on emotion. We back up those emotional decisions with logic. We rationalize, which basically just simply means we tell ourselves rational lies. And this is part of being human.

 

Now, we are certainly not suggesting that you deny your emotions. There’s no need for that. Emotions are wonderful. They are a beautiful part of life. They bring us joy. They make life worth living.

 

No, don’t your emotions but control them. Make sure you’re the master of your emotions as opposed to your emotions being the master of you.

 

So a great friend of John Davin Mann’s and mine, her name is [0:29:01] [Indiscernible], great leadership speaker. And what she said once and this is where we took this from, the saying you were referring to, she said, “By all means, take your emotions along for the ride but make sure you are driving the car.”

 

And we love that because again, bring your emotions, absolutely. But make sure you, your logical mind is driving. Your emotions, bring them with you, but make sure they are in the passenger seat safely belted and seatbelt fastened. OK? Because if your emotions are driving the car, it’s almost like you’re at the mercy of a drunk driver, right? We – our emotions bring wisdom with us. We should consult our emotions but if we want to create the environment, Kody, where we’re making the best decisions which gives us the best chance of the outcome we desire, we need to be acting from a logical base.

 

Kody Bateman: What’s interesting as you talk about emotions, I had a college professor and I don’t want to get too far into this debatable discussion here, I’m just going to bring this as a point as we talk about emotions, but this is four years of college. There are about three things that just stick in your mind that a professor may have taught or whatever, three things out of fours of education.

 

One of mine came from a psychology professor who said and it was his theory and it’s debatable I’m sure or whatever, but his theory is he said love – first of all, he talked about the power of love. Love is the ultimate – it’s ultimately the most powerful thing there is. And scripturally, those who – Christian people read the Bible or whatever, scripturally, it talks about love is the only thing that will prevail. I mean after everything fails, love will be the only thing standing. So he talked a lot about the importance of love.

 

But then he went on and he said, “Love is not an emotion.” Because most people think, well, love is an emotion. And he said, “No, love is not an emotion. Love is a state of being.” Emotions are the levels. They are the levels of what you feel something. So if you feel despiteful or hateful, there is a level of that hate. That’s the emotion you feel. Love is a state of being. Now, you can feel a higher level of love and those kind of things.

 

And then he referred to a scripture in the Bible that basically says this. It says, “Bridle your passions so that you may be filled with love.” So when I listen to you talk about this, it’s like you got to control your emotions so that you can allow the powerful things in your life to work. Does that make sense to you?

 

Bob Burg: Yeah, it does.

 

Kody Bateman: Bridle your passions.

 

Bob Burg: What it’s saying, it’s really saying that when you’re in control of your emotions, you can think from a constructive proactive basis.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: Right? Because it’s we’re in control of those emotions. So they’re there and it’s OK. Again, we don’t want to deny them. They’re there. But they’re in there – they’re in the place they are supposed to be. They’re our servant, not our master. Right?

 

And so, when that’s the case, now we can proactively – we can act out of conscious choice rather than a type of reactive programming.

 

Kody Bateman: Right. Right.

 

Bob Burg: Yeah, I love that.

 

Kody Bateman: OK. Another one of these secrets and we’ve talked about this but I want to get some different input from you. Step into other person’s shoes, stepping into other people’s shoes. So just tell us a little bit about what you mean by that.

 

Bob Burg: Well, it’s a saying, Kody, that it’s kind of a trite saying because we’ve all heard of it before, right? Oh, step into the other person’s shoe. It’s easy. But is it? When you think about, most of us have different size feet. So literally, we can’t step into the other person’s shoes a lot of the times. But figuratively, more importantly here, figuratively, we can’t step into another person’s mind because we all come from our own set of beliefs, our belief system which is our – what is a belief? A belief is a subjective truth. It’s the truth as we understand the truth to be, which means it might be the truth or it might not be.

 

And far too often, it’s really not because we all see the world from our paradigm, from our own model, from our own. And this belief system we have, most of it, it was given to us, right? I mean it’s a combination of upbringing, environment, school, and news media. And it was pretty much fixed early in our life. And so most of us, we grow up living from what I would call an unconscious operating system thinking that we’re choosing proactively and actively when usually we’re pretty much operating within a matrix if you will of some predetermined choices.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: What happens is we see the world a certain way according to our belief system. So does the other person.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: But as human beings, we tend to think that most people see the world the same way we do. I mean it makes sense. How can it be anything different? It’s all we know.

 

Now, most conflict is the result of two people seeing the same basic thing from two different points of view without even realizing it. That’s why it’s so important to ask questions, to not assume we know what they are thinking, and to not assume they know what we are thing because we don’t and they don’t. We need to ask questions and then listen.

 

But as one of the mentors in the story told their protégée, “Listen not just with your ears.” That’s the surface listening that most people do. That’s listening in order to speak. That’s allowing them to getting their two cents so that we can get in our ten cents, right?

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: Listen instead with your eyes. Listen with your posture. Listen with the back of your neck. In other words, just put your entire being into listening to this person. Now when you do this, two beautiful things happen. One is you actually do learn more about this person. You are stepping into their shoes. You are getting to know their thought process, what’s meaningful to them, what do they value, what do they need from you.

 

But the other thing is, when you do this, the other person feels heard. They feel listened to. They feel understood. And that’s such a basic need of human beings. And so, they feel good about you. They begin to trust you. And so, it just when we can really listen in order as Stephen Covey said, Dr. Covey, “Listen in order to understand. Seek first to understand.” Well now, we’re 9 steps ahead of the game in a 10-step game and we’re really creating the context for a very beneficial relationship.

 

Kody Bateman: OK. So as I hear you say all the stuff, stepping in somebody else’s shoes, it all feels like I’m going to break a fundamental rule of podcasting right now. I’m just going to warn everybody right now. When I heard you saying that, I couldn’t help but think, “So in other words, a Republican ought to step into a Democrat’s shoes, and a Democrat ought to step into a Republican shoes.” Now, I know my listeners are already going, “Aaargh! He just said something about politics.”

 

But in all seriousness, don’t you think – I mean isn’t that – I don’t want to talk politics but I do want to talk about an issue that’s going on in our country right now, there is this separation because of a non-willingness to see things from somebody else’s point of view.

 

Bob Burg: You know, Kody, it used to be a political discourse. It used to be “I’m right, you’re wrong.” Now, that’s still not the best case scenario but that’s what it used to be. And it was, yeah, people got by with that. Now, it’s “I’m right, you’re evil.”

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: OK? If you don’t agree with what I think is right in terms of this or that, not only are you wrong, but you have evil intent.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: Well, you just can’t – you can’t learn that way. You can’t understand anything that way. What you said is a great point about stepping into the shoes of the other side. And let’s look at a couple of different things there if we may. And this also goes into some of the other secrets if you will because they’re really not secrets, of Genuine Influence, in terms of setting or resetting of frame, communicating with tact and empathy.

 

Let’s say for example that, and I know this never ever happens, but let’s say there’s a really malicious kind of political discussion going on on Facebook. I know that would never – where people are insulting each other, right? But we’ll just use that as an example as though it could happen.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah.

 

Bob Burg: And so, so let’s say somebody makes a statement. Somebody posts a statement. And the other person, somebody comments and says, “People like you are absolutely horrible, evil person. You have no right to live. You don’t care about people. You are blah, blah, blah.”

 

Now, does the person who has been insulted, do they ever respond to that by saying, “Thank you so much! Wow! I so appreciate you pointing out the error of my ways. I never thought of it that way.”

 

Kody Bateman: I see the light. I see the light. Yeah.

 

Bob Burg: Right. No, of course not! They’re going to be only more – and it’s the same if someone then comments back to the person with the insult, “Oh, people like you were just blah, blah, blah,” and it goes back and forth. Nobody is understanding. People are just yelling. They are spewing hatred. Nothing is happening. No one is being influenced.

 

So what if instead this happened? And again, say a person posts a rather controversial type of statement. A person responds by saying, “People like you are evil. You don’t care about others. You have no right to live, blah, blah, blah.” OK.

 

Now, what if another person decides to join the conversation and they say, “Mark,” let’s say the person’s name was Mark who made the real evil, horrible response, “Mark, I must say I’m very impressed with the passion that you have. Like you, I also want to live in a country where people are able to …” and then you make the point of where you both probably agree because you know, Kody, here’s something I found. Whether someone is far left, far right, medium left, medium right, whatever, conservative, liberal, libertarian or whatever, most people want a country in which people are happy, can pursue happiness, that they’re healthy, that they’re prosperous, that they’re happy.

 

Now, there are two totally different ways of going about it that there’s no – of getting there. That’s not the issue. But most have. Other than the total outliers on both sides, most have the same basic goal. So when you can say, “Mark, I must say I appreciate the passion you have for this topic. You seem to genuinely care about others. Like you, I want to live in a country where people are able to …” and then you make the point. And then you say, “I think our biggest difference is in how we feel is the best way to get there.”

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: So now what you’ve done is a couple of things. One, you’ve reframed this from totally adversarial to one of two allies looking for the same result. You did it with kindness. You did it with tactfulness.

 

Now, I’ve actually had people write back and say, “Oh well, I apologize for being so this and that but I …” whatever. But a lot of people would not too. There are some people, their minds are so made up and so they’re just not going to. But here’s the thing that most people don’t understand or I think they understand but we don’t think about it. Whether in in-person group conversation or an online conversation, there are usually lots of people who are listening in, who aren’t really commenting.

 

Kody Bateman: Right.

 

Bob Burg: But most people, Kody, are not so far one way or the other that they can’t be influenced. They’re somewhere in the middle or a little bit to one side or a little bit to the other side. And they are watching. They are watching this conversation for a couple of things. Of course, they are looking for the facts and so it’s important to know what you’re talking about. But even I hate to say more importantly, they are looking for who they can relate to. They are looking for who is making their point in a way that is genuine, that is respectful, that brings people into the conversation. You know what I’m saying?

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah.

 

Bob Burg: And these are the people. So when we do it this way, we actually can open people up to a different way of thinking.

 

Kody Bateman: Well, I can’t help but think, as somebody enters a conversation like that that might turn controversial, a lot of it has to do with the person’s state of mind. I mean what are you feeding yourself on a daily basis? If you are watching the news every day and you’re involved with the controversy on a daily basis, if you are getting on social media and you’re looking at all of the things that so and so said versus what somebody else said then that becomes your in – like you said, that becomes your influence. That becomes …

 

Bob Burg: The echo chamber.

 

Kody Bateman: … what you’re nourishing yourself with. Now, when you enter that conversation, the nourishment that you put in here is what you’re portraying in your energy out in these conversations. And I think that’s why it gets very controversial.

 

Now, I take a look at you, those of you watching this show on YouTube, are able to see Bob. And right behind you are all these books and you can’t see mine because they’re off – over here but behind me, I’ve got all these books. And I can – I don’t see the titles on there but I guarantee it, you’ve got hundreds if not thousands of personal development, positivity, nourishment-oriented books that are sitting behind you which a reflection of what you nourish yourself with.

 

And let’s talk a little bit about that as we close up today. How important is nourishment, the proper kind of nourishment so that you can give away the best version of yourself to somebody else?

 

Bob Burg: Oh, I think it’s everything. I think it’s everything because we can choose what we put into our mind. Now, there’s a lot of stuff we can’t choose that goes in because we hear things, we see things, and so forth. Absolutely. But we have a choice of what we’re going to study.

 

And yes, most of my books are personal development books. I need them. I need to keep feeding my mind.

 

I’ll also tell you there are a lot of – there are history books. It’s another favorite other than marketing, philosophy, a lot of political books. And I’m going to tell you, they are political from both sides of the aisle because I want to know what the other is thinking. And you alluded to something earlier and I just want to bring it up quickly if I can because I think this is very important. I think it feeds into what we’re talking about.

 

Should you understand the way the other side thinks? I have been saying for a long time now that if you are a let’s say a conservative Republican, you should be watching MSNBC and CNN. OK. Sometimes. If you are a progressive Democrat, you should be watching the Fox News. And when I say watching them, I don’t mean watching the clips on the station you usually watch with a take clips from the other one, the enemy, right? And they show it from a skewed perspective. No! I mean watch the other point of view, not to agree with it, not to agree with it, but to understand.

 

Kody Bateman: Understand it. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Bob Burg: Understand it because when you understand it, now you’re in a position – first, you see them as human and you understand more about what’s driving them and what’s motivating them. And you’re basically in a position to be more influential because you are understanding them even if they are not understanding you.

 

And that’s why you’ve got to read from different perspectives and then make your own mind up. Don’t just believe who you want to believe because you like it. That’s that confirmation bias that we all hear about all the time. Confirmation bias, when you come across some information and if it confirms your already held beliefs or biases, you accept it, but if it doesn’t, you ignore it. You can’t learn that way.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah, no question about it. That’s great advice by the way. It’s super, super good advice. Not easy to follow but super good advice. It is really important to gain a balance in your own mind and make up your own mind.

 

Bob Burg: Yeah.

 

Kody Bateman: Make up your mind. I think that’s the real important thing. Well, I’ll tell you what, we could talk for hours I think. It has just been an honor to have you on with us.

 

Bob Burg: Likewise.

 

Kody Bateman: And I love to listen to you. So everybody, Go-Giver, Go-Giver Influencer, go to Amazon or what’s your website?

 

Bob Burg: Yeah. They can either go Burg.com or TheGoGiver.com, without the hyphen, TheGoGiver.com. And everything is there too.

 

Kody Bateman: Excellent. And also, you got a big conference coming up that you’re speaking at, the OutBound Conference in Atlanta, Georgia. I believe that’s on – when is that? That is …

 

Bob Burg: It’s April something.

 

Kody Bateman: April 23rd through the 26th. I’m actually going to be, I think I’m going to be in attendance there so I would be able to meet and see you there.

 

Bob Burg: Right. I can’t wait.

 

Kody Bateman: Which should be great. We have a big conference coming up in Salt Lake City. August 8th and 9th is the Relationship Marketing Grand Summit. Now, I’ve been wanting to get with you and I’m sure it’s probably too late because your schedule is crazy but man, I’d love to have you speak at our Relationship Marketing Summit. I think you’d be phenomenal.

 

So that’s my way of hooking speakers. I get in a public format where a thousand people are listening and say, “Hey, Bob. Come and speak at my event. It’s August 8th and 9th.” [Laughter] I’m sure you got three bookings that day. But anyway, I’ll have …

 

Bob Burg: Let’s take a look at schedules and see if we can match up. I’d be honored to. Absolutely.

 

Kody Bateman: Yeah, we would. If schedules would permit, we’d love to have you there and love seeing you over at the OutBound event coming up in April.

 

Bob Burg: Yeah.

 

Kody Bateman: So there you have it, my friends. I appreciate all of you tuning in with us today. Bob, I appreciate the time you spent. Keep doing what you’re doing, brother. I really appreciate the influence that you have on me personally and so many people throughout the world.

 

So take care, everybody. Appreciate you. We’ll see you in another episode here of our Relationship Marketing Podcast and we’ll talk to you all later. Take care now.

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